Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay on the Outs?

[Dante84]

Reigning MVP Aaron Rodgers is so disgruntled with the Green Bay Packers that he has told some within the organization that he does not want to return to the team, league and team sources told ESPN on Thursday.

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— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) April 29, 2021

#Packers GM Brian Gutekunst to ESPN: "As we've stated since the season ended, we are committed to Aaron in 2021 and beyond. Aaron has been a vital part of our success and we look forward to competing for another championship with him leading our team."

— NFL Update (@MySportsUpdate) April 29, 2021

Aaron Rodgers doesn't want to return to Green Bay Packers, sources say
Reigning MVP Aaron Rodgers is so disgruntled with the Green Bay Packers that he has told some within the organization that he does not want to return to the team, league and team sources told ESPN on Thursday.

The Packers are aware of his feelings, concerned about them and have had team president Mark Murphy, general manager Brian Gutekunst and head coach Matt LaFleur each fly out on separate trips to meet with Rodgers at various points this offseason, sources told ESPN.

"As we've stated since the season ended, we are committed to Aaron in 2021 and beyond," Gutekunst told ESPN. "Aaron has been a vital part of our success and we look forward to competing for another championship with him leading our team."

Rodgers has not budged this offseason, but neither have the Packers, who have made it known they are not interested in trading Rodgers anywhere.

The San Francisco 49ers called the Packers on Wednesday night, a source told ESPN, and the Los Angeles Rams inquired about Rodgers in January before they traded for Matthew Stafford.

The Packers quickly dismissed the Rams' overtures, the source said.

The Packers have offered to extend Rodgers' contract, sources told ESPN.

Rodgers is unhappy for a variety of reasons, with some of it dating back to last year's draft when the Packers didn't inform him before trading up to draft a quarterback with their first-round pick. Some took this as a sign that his days in Green Bay could he numbered.

He also is at a different point in his personal life, having recently gotten engaged to actress Shailene Woodley. Rodgers also has hosted "Jeopardy!" and said it would be a dream to become the full-time host. He could play football and host Jeopardy! together.

Rodgers has made cryptic comments about his future in Green Bay, but he has told others that he does not want to return.

On draft night, the Packers' biggest issue isn't who they land, but whether they can keep the former NFL MVP.

Rodgers' contract contained a $6.8 million roster bonus due in March. It could have been converted into a signing bonus that would have freed up more than $4.5 million in salary-cap space for this season but instead it "vested as scheduled," a source told ESPN at the time. It's listed as an automatic conversion in Rodgers' contract but even that has to be signed off on by both parties. It's not known if the Packers tried to convert and Rodgers refused to sign off on it, or if they did not attempt a conversion.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by staylor26

He’s not better than any of those guys, except for maybe Gesicki who along with Tonyan, Fant, and a few others make up tier 3.

Tier 1:

Kelce
Waller
Kittle

Tier 2:

Andrews
Hockenson

Tier 3:

Fant
Gesicki
Tonyan
J. Smith
Goedert

He’s a good TE, but he’s not even a for sure significant upgrade from Tonyan, who people ignore when talking about Rodgers current group of weapons. I’m not trying to down him though because he could easily enter that 2nd tier this year.

There’s not a noticeable difference between Fant and the guys in your tier 2.

Biggest difference I can see is Hock and Andrews had Stafford and Lamar Jackson throwing to them while Fant has had Lock and some other trash cans.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

There’s not a noticeable difference between Fant and the guys in your tier 2.

Biggest difference I can see is Hock and Andrews had Stafford and Lamar Jackson throwing to them while Fant has had Lock and some other trash cans.

Mark Andrews battled injuries this past year, but he had just under 900 yards and 10 TD’s 2 years ago. He’s absolutely better than Fant. I don’t see how you are even trying to argue otherwise.

And there’s been a clear difference in Hockenson and Fant since they played together at Iowa.

You literally base all of your football takes on statistics, so I knew you’d argue that Fant is on Hock’s level, but he never has been to anybody that has watched them both play.

As for the QB’s they’ve played with, I don’t really think that makes the difference that you are claiming it does. It’s not like the WR position. Also, it’s not like Lamar is a great thrower by any means. Hockenson might’ve had Stafford, but he was really held back last year by Bevell who doesn’t seem to value the TE position in his offense.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

There’s not a noticeable difference between Fant and the guys in your tier 2.

Biggest difference I can see is Hock and Andrews had Stafford and Lamar Jackson throwing to them while Fant has had Lock and some other trash cans.

That’s the way it goes. Demaryius Thomas had average stats in he pre- Manning and post Manning career.

Tonyan and Hockenson aren’t as good as they are without their QB’s while Fant is not as good statistically with the trash they’ve had but would be way better with a QB like Rodgers.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Mark Andrews battled injuries this past year, but he had just under 900 yards and 10 TD’s 2 years ago. He’s absolutely better than Fant. I don’t see how you are even trying to argue otherwise.

And there’s been a clear difference in Hockenson and Fant since they played together at Iowa.

You literally base all of your football takes on statistics, so I knew you’d argue that Fant is on Hock’s level, but he never has been to anybody that has watched them both play.

As for the QB’s they’ve played with, I don’t really think that makes the difference that you are claiming it does. It’s not like the WR position. Also, it’s not like Lamar is a great thrower by any means. Hockenson might’ve had Stafford, but he was really held back last year by Bevell who doesn’t seem to value the TE position in his offense.

Arguing on the eye test is bogus. You do that a lot and you're bogus.

Of course the QB makes a difference lol that's a shit take

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by RunKC

That’s the way it goes. Demaryius Thomas had average stats in he pre- Manning and post Manning career.

Tonyan and Hockenson aren’t as good as they are without their QB’s while Fant is not as good statistically with the trash they’ve had but would be way better with a QB like Rodgers.

Agreed. QB makes a huge difference.

Even a guy like Lamar who's not a great passer. He likes the middle of the field and the threat of him taking off on any play means far more opportunities for a guy like Andrews to find himself open.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Arguing on the eye test is bogus. You do that a lot and you're bogus.

Of course the QB makes a difference lol that's a shit take

The “eye test” is bogus?

Stats from Lamar’s MVP year said he was on the level of elite QB’s. Judging by stats only is absolutely more bogus than the eye test.

You thought Blake Bortles was worthy of being a top 100 player because he threw 30 TD’s while ignoring the context that I provided to argue otherwise. You have no ****ing clue what you’re talking about half the time because your takes are 100% based on stats. I’m not saying stats are irrelevant, but context and the eye test matter too.

Also, did mediocre QB play in Denver stop Sutton from having 1,112 yards and 6 TD’s in 2019?

I love how stats are the ball all and end all for you but you’re completely ignoring that Mark Andrews best season is way better than anything Fant’s done so far in his career.

I never said QB’s don’t have make a difference at all, I just don’t think it’s the same for TE’s as it is for WR’s. The average NFL QB can get the ball to a good TE. The difference in Kelce’s stats with Smith and Mahomes is nowhere near the difference in the QB’s themselves.

We saw Hockenson and Fant play on the same ****ing team. I’m not saying that Hockenson is in a different stratosphere, but he’s absolutely the better player and has been since their days in college.

And again, I even said that Fant could easily be in that tier with Hock and Andrews after this season. He’s just not there yet, and anybody that has a clue knows those guys are better.

For all the talk about Fant being comparable to those guys in terms of productivity, you can say the same thing about the guys I put him with in tier 3, so by your logic everybody outside of the top 3 is pretty much the same.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by RunKC

That’s the way it goes. Demaryius Thomas had average stats in he pre- Manning and post Manning career.

Tonyan and Hockenson aren’t as good as they are without their QB’s while Fant is not as good statistically with the trash they’ve had but would be way better with a QB like Rodgers.

What a stupid ****ing take. Hockenson isn’t as good as he is without Stafford? If he had an OC that knew how to use a TE like him, he would’ve been even better in 2020. Bevell has never valued the TE position, and it was clear watching the Lions last year that they didn’t use Hockenson like they should.

And GB hasn’t had good TE play for most of Rodger’s career. To dismiss what Tonyan did last year because of Rodgers is ****ing stupid.

“Tyreek and Kelce aren’t as good as they are without their QB”

“Davante Adams isn’t as good as he is without his QB”

“Gronk isn’t as good as he is without Brady”

Demaryius Thomas was still a young developing player when Manning got there. It was only year 3 for him, and anybody that followed him in college and in the draft would know that he was raw coming out.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by staylor26

The “eye test” is bogus?

Stats from Lamar’s MVP year said he was on the level of elite QB’s. Judging by stats only is absolutely more bogus than the eye test.

You thought Blake Bortles was worthy of being a top 100 player because he threw 30 TD’s while ignoring the context that I provided to argue otherwise. You have no ****ing clue what you’re talking about half the time because your takes are 100% based on stats. I’m not saying stats are irrelevant, but context and the eye test matter too.

Also, did mediocre QB play in Denver stop Sutton from having 1,112 yards and 6 TD’s in 2019?

I love how stats are the ball all and end all for you but you’re completely ignoring that Mark Andrews best season is way better than anything Fant’s done so far in his career.

I never said QB’s don’t have make a difference at all, I just don’t think it’s the same for TE’s as it is for WR’s. The average NFL QB can get the ball to a good TE. The difference in Kelce’s stats with Smith and Mahomes is nowhere near the difference in the QB’s themselves.

We saw Hockenson and Fant play on the same ****ing team. I’m not saying that Hockenson is in a different stratosphere, but he’s absolutely the better player and has been since their days in college.

And again, I even said that Fant could easily be in that tier with Hock and Andrews after this season. He’s just not there yet, and anybody that has a clue knows those guys are better.

For all the talk about Fant being comparable to those guys in terms of productivity, you can say the same thing about the guys I put him with in tier 3.

Yeah, no shit. I said Fant is one of the better TEs in the league. He has comparable stats to all of those schlubs you've mentioned, which shows that he's one of the better TEs in the league. There's Kelce, Kittle and Waller then a group of like 7-8 guys who are the best of the rest. There is not much difference in all of them, and that includes Hock and Andrews.

The only difference between Andrews and Fant is that Andrews has the luxury of playing with a guy who's capable of playing like the MVP. Swap the two and Fant is the one putting up 1,000 yards and 10 TDs.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Yeah, no shit. I said Fant is one of the better TEs in the league. He has comparable stats to all of those schlubs you've mentioned, which shows that he's one of the better TEs in the league. There's Kelce, Kittle and Waller then a group of like 7-8 guys who are the best of the rest. There is not much difference in all of them, and that includes Hock and Andrews.

The only difference between Andrews and Fant is that Andrews has the luxury of playing with a guy who's capable of playing like the MVP. Swap the two and Fant is the one putting up 1,000 yards and 10 TDs.

This is the very definition of projection.

Again, what stopped Courtland Sutton from getting held back by Denver’s QB play in 2019 where he had 1,112 yards and 6 TD’s?

Why were Kelce’s numbers with Alex similar to his numbers with Mahomes? The difference in the stats is nowhere near the difference in QB.

[njchiefs]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Why were Kelce’s numbers with Alex similar to his numbers with Mahomes? The difference in the stats is nowhere near the difference in QB.

Because Alex never threw the ball to a wide receiver. I’ll bet Tyreek’s stats would have been quite different if Smith were throwing to him.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by njchiefs

Because Alex never threw the ball to a wide receiver. I’ll bet Tyreek’s stats would have been quite different if Smith were throwing to him.

Umm Tyreek had 1,183 yards and 7 TD’s in just his sophomore season with Alex at QB.

[Easy 6]

What a shitty, awkward year they've all set up for themselves

They will make the dance again, but won't sniff the NFCCG... the whole vibe around that team is gonna stink, everyone will be walking on eggshells and waiting for the rug to get pulled out from under them

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by staylor26

What a stupid ****ing take. Hockenson isn’t as good as he is without Stafford? If he had an OC that knew how to use a TE like him, he would’ve been even better in 2020. Bevell has never valued the TE position, and it was clear watching the Lions last year that they didn’t use Hockenson like they should.

And GB hasn’t had good TE play for most of Rodger’s career. To dismiss what Tonyan did last year because of Rodgers is ****ing stupid.

“Tyreek and Kelce aren’t as good as they are without their QB”

“Davante Adams isn’t as good as he is without his QB”

“Gronk isn’t as good as he is without Brady”

Demaryius Thomas was still a young developing player when Manning got there. It was only year 3 for him, and anybody that followed him in college and in the draft would know that he was raw coming out.

Dude it’s common knowledge that good QB play helps players. There are countless examples of good receivers/TE’s that look bad with shitty players throwing to them and way better with good QB’s throwing to them.

Tyreek was really good with Alex, but just in his first year with Patrick he had 17 yards average PER CATCH. His stats exploded. And they have been way better with Patrick.

Even 2019 when he was hurt he was still on pace to have an incredible year.

Good QB’s make players great. It’s not rocket science

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by staylor26

This is the very definition of projection.

Again, what stopped Courtland Sutton from getting held back by Denver’s QB play in 2019 where he had 1,112 yards and 6 TD’s?

Why were Kelce’s numbers with Alex similar to his numbers with Mahomes? The difference in the stats is nowhere near the difference in QB.

1,100 yards and 6 TDs was not stellar production from a #1 WR in 2019. He barely made the top 20 in yards that season. Joe Flacco, Drew Lock and Brandon Allen held Courtland Sutton back. Still, a rookie Fant was able to halve that production from a traditional TE position because he's pretty good.

And Kelce's numbers have changed pretty significantly since Mahomes took over:

In the three full seasons he started with Alex he averaged 80 catches, just over 1,000 yards and 6 TDs. On average, 49 receptions went for 1st downs.

In three full seasons with Mahomes, he averages 101 catches, 1,327 yards and 9 TDs. On average, 73 of those receptions go for 1st downs.

His catch percentage has gone up with Mahomes, his yards per target are up with Mahomes, his yards per catch are up with Mahomes. He went from a guy who was a really good TE but a clear-cut second to Gronk with Alex to smashing TE receiving records and a Hall of Fame lock with Mahomie.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Dude it’s common knowledge that good QB play helps players. There are countless examples of good receivers/TE’s that look bad with shitty players throwing to them and way better with good QB’s throwing to them.

Tyreek was really good with Alex, but just in his first year with Patrick he had 17 yards average PER CATCH. His stats exploded. And they have been way better with Patrick.

Even 2019 when he was hurt he was still on pace to have an incredible year.

Good QB’s make players great. It’s not rocket science

Yeah, this is a weird debate.

We make thousands of posts about how bad the Broncos are mainly because of the shitty QB carousel they've been on since Manning left and in the same breath try to argue that QB doesn't make that much of a difference.