Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[gh4chiefs]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Because, as I've said repeatedly, there's no way Kirk could beaten one of these things alone and unarmed. It would have run him down and killed him instantly. The end. Also, the Enterprise crew knew almost nothing about the Gorn during the TOS episode. That's completely out the window now as well.

You beat me to it. This discussion piqued my curiosity and I broke out my DVD of Arena to see if I remembered what I thought I did. And you're correct, Kirk and company had no clue who the Gorn were.

As Listo and I have both said, several times, had they just made this a newly encountered, different race, we'd have no issues with it at all.

One had to wonder why they chose to go this route. They seem to want it both ways. They say they don't want to let canon get in the way of story telling. OK, that's fine. But why go out of their way to shit all over canon when it wasn't necessary at all? The Gorn as seen in TOS were a one-off species, certainly not tied to the bigger fabric of Star Trek mythos. So why go back to them to use in SNW? Only to COMPLETELY rewrite them. What's the point exactly?

As you said, they could have done EXACTLY what they did, told the EXACT same story, called them the "whatever species" and they could have done their story and not messed with the past history at the same time.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by gh4chiefs

One had to wonder why they chose to go this route.

Let me guess. It might be because they wanted to pay homage to TOS but took one look at this 1960s era costume and realized they had to update the character design for 2020s television.

They seem to want it both ways. They say they don't want to let canon get in the way of story telling. OK, that's fine. But why go out of their way to shit all over canon when it wasn't necessary at all? The Gorn as seen in TOS were a one-off species, certainly not tied to the bigger fabric of Star Trek mythos. So why go back to them to use in SNW? Only to COMPLETELY rewrite them. What's the point exactly?

They didn't shit all over canon (although in this case that wouldn't have been a bad thing). They updated a character design so it that would actually work in 2023 instead of something that people would laugh at. It has proven to be an enormously popular and effective choice amongst the majority of the fans (at least those who aren't worried about sticking as closely as possible to a 1960s television show; I mean there are people here seriously complaining that 1960s Kirk wouldn't win a fight against one of these lizard people today as if that should somehow be any kind of consideration for the writers/producers).

Also, didn't you say you had given up on the show after last week and wouldn't watch it again?

[lawrenceRaider]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Speaking of Gorn from TOS, the dude from inside the suit is going to be at the ICT Comicon 8/26 to 8/27.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by listopencil

Because it isn't actually the Gorn. They've done something else and slapped that name on it.

Originally Posted by Frazod

Because, as I've said repeatedly, there's no way Kirk could beaten one of these things alone and unarmed. It would have run him down and killed him instantly. The end. Also, the Enterprise crew knew almost nothing about the Gorn during the TOS episode. That's completely out the window now as well.

Do I hate it? No. Was it a good episode? Yes. Will I keep watching the show? Of course. But things that fly in the face of established canon annoy me. Not the first time it's happened (like purple Klingon blood in Star Trek VI, Scotty not thinking Kirk was dead in Relics), and I'm sure it won't be the last. I got over those, and I'll get over this. This franchise is nearly 60 years old, and these things are going to happen. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. And this particular gaffe is really egregious, since they built an entire storyline around it.

As Listo and I have both said, several times, had they just made this a newly encountered, different race, we'd have no issues with it at all.

Ah okay, now it makes more sense.


I mean, they did say that they were going to play it a little fast and loose with standard ST canon, so I've just been taking the aberrations for what they're worth.


Besides, the original Gorn were kind of silly really. This version is much more interesting as an archenemy.

[Bowser]

What would have been fantastic is if Spock would have built a mortar out of the Cayuga's wreckage and fired a crystal through the Gorn's gut.

Is it too much to ask for deep cut fan service with every episode?

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Much like many of the characters, the Gorn have been supersized. I'm sure I said it before, but how in the hell did the lumbering brute from TOS turn into a combination of Alien/Predator? I understand the need to update the 60s stuff for modern audiences, but that absolutely shits all over established canon. Kirk wouldn't have lasted a minute against one of those things with no weapons or armor. Hell, Mike Tyson in his prime wouldn't have lasted a minute against one.

I hope they'll fix this somehow (perhaps as Gorns get older they become bulky and slow and lose their ten foot long whiplash murder tails), but I doubt it.

I realize that I don't represent SNW's intended audience (or any modern show's intended audience, for that matter) but goddamn, they really took this one too far. I wish they'd simply made them a brand new species. I'd have had zero problems with that.

Originally Posted by Frazod

Sometimes I forget how you love to argue just for the sake of arguing.

"Updating the 60s stuff" and "supersizing" aren't the same thing. Redesigning the bridge is updating. Turning a slow, hulking brute into a velociraptor that infects its victims with its larvae is supersizing.

Originally Posted by Frazod

Again, you're so busy being obtuse that you completely miss the point. Of course you can update things. That is to be expected. I mentioned the bridge before - that is perhaps the coolest thing in Star Trek ever. Hell, I didn't care that they altered the look of the Klingons in the first movie, or the Romulans in NG. But changing the entire nature of something goes far beyond updating. The updated Klingons just had long hair, bad teeth and ridges on their foreheads - they weren't suddenly ten feet tall with tentacles sprouting out of their backs. They could have made menacing CGI Gorns that are better and more realistic than some guy stomping around in a green costume 55 years ago that didn't completely piss on established canon.

Explain how Kirk, alone and unarmed, could survive against an "updated" Gorn long enough to locate and identify the components of gunpowder, and then construct a bamboo mortar. Good luck with that. I guess they could just supersize him into Captain America or Superman; that would be as silly as what they've already done, but hey, modern audiences, right?

Yeah, this clown totally never bitched about the 2023 Gorn updated terrorizing depiction being too far away from the lumbering 1967 version and cried for something that didn't bastardize canon. Definitely never happened.

Do you guys even read how ridiculous some of these complaints are? Insanity that this is even a point of discussion at all.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Yeah, this clown totally never bitched about the 2023 Gorn updated terrorizing depiction being too far away from the lumbering 1967 version and cried for something that didn't bastardize canon. Definitely never happened.

Do you guys even read how ridiculous some of these complaints are? Insanity that this is even a point of discussion at all.

Everybody seems to read just fine, other than you. Thanks for quoting all the stuff that makes my point. I really don't need any help making you look like a ****ing idiot, though.

And you can shove your thumbs down straight up your bitch ass. And again, thanks for all the thumbs up votes I get every time I point out what a ****ing moron you are.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Everybody seems to read just fine, other than you. Thanks for quoting all the stuff that makes my point. I really don't need any help making you look like a ****ing idiot, though.

Quoting the stuff that shows you bitching about the depiction of the Gorn compared to the 1960s version and hilariously whining about the damage this allegedly does to canon proves your point, does it? Absolute insanity.

And you can shove your thumbs down straight up your bitch ass. And again, thanks for all the thumbs up votes I get every time I point out what a ****ing moron you are.

If I knew how much a single down vote would trigger you, I would have done it much earlier.

[Discuss Thrower]

You're all complaining about how updating the Gorn violates canon..?

**** guys, they violated canon by changing the Trill from rubber ridged forehead aliens who can't use the transporter to leopard spotted near humans who have no problem using the transporter. And did so in the span of three years and not five decades.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

You're all complaining about how updating the Gorn violates canon..?

**** guys, they violated canon by changing the Trill from rubber ridged forehead aliens who can't use the transporter to leopard spotted near humans who have no problem using the transporter. And did so in the span of three years and not five decades.

It's only a small few, but it still has been absolutely bizarre to see it. If someone is seriously spending any time at all dwelling on the idea that the 2023 Gorn violate 1960s TOS canon because Captain Kirk could no longer beat one of these lizards in hand-to-hand combat, some perspective seems to badly be needed. No modern Trek is ever gonna satisfy them if that's the standard.

[KC_Connection]

Just think. They're gonna make some great Trek series in like 60 years that will change the Gorn again to fit a 2080s audience and some oldhead on some Internet forum somewhere (in whatever form the Internet is in at that point) is gonna complain it didn't stick to the canon established in SNW.

[crayzkirk]

I haven't seen season 2 however I enjoyed the season 1 episode with the Gorn. Enterprise had a Gorn episode and it was nothing like the TOS version. The Romulans are different, the Klingons are different. TNG introduced the Borg as the big bad and then neutered them completely. Don't know about DS9 because I couldn't get past the first season. Maybe all the messing around with the time line has altered the Gorn, or like one of the species on Enterprise, there's multiple strains. Perhaps the slow, plodding Gorn is the male and the scary one is the female.

Can't we just enjoy that we have a decent ST again? Enterprise had Borg working with the Nazi and rewrote history. I'm all for making things more interesting and to heck with any 'canon'. It's a freaking TV show.

Oh yeah, Han DID shoot first. Good guys can do bad things and bad guys can do good things. Let it go...

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by crayzkirk

Can't we just enjoy that we have a decent ST again? Enterprise had Borg working with the Nazi and rewrote history. I'm all for making things more interesting and to heck with any 'canon'. It's a freaking TV show.

Oh yeah, Han DID shoot first. Good guys can do bad things and bad guys can do good things. Let it go...

The multiverse timeline has been reset. Everything is new to this specific timeline. Kirk exists but it’s not the same Kirk etc.

[Lzen]

FTR, I really like the Gorn episodes. But I have to say that I agree with frazod's points about the Gorn and SNW.