Our current WR costs.

[Mr. Wizard]

2023 Kansas City Chiefs Wide Receiver Cap Hit Rankings
PLAYER
POS
CAP HIT
1
Marquez Valdes-Scantling
KC
WR $11,000,000
2
Kadarius Toney
KC
WR $1,907,228
3
Skyy Moore
KC
WR $1,466,022
4
John Ross
KC
WR $940,000
Ihmir Smith-Marsette
KC
WR $940,000
6
Cornell Powell
KC
WR $870,000
7
Jerrion Ealy
KC
WR $750,000
Ty Fryfogle
KC
WR $750,000
Justyn Ross
KC
WR $750,000

[Megatron96]

As an aside, why the heck are we so good at drafting RBs and so bad at drafting WRs? We're a pass-happy team; you'd think it'd be the other way around?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Then get it right. They didn’t think mecole or Pringle were good enough to be paid in peanuts. Cornell Powell can’t break the roster. We have not drafted a single WR we want to keep since tyreek hill. That’s a problem. I am fine with getting younger but this isn’t a position we can blindly trust in. Same way we stopped making excuses for our poor OL personnel development until we placed some urgency after the Super Bowl. If they’re going this route they had better get it right real fast.

It is also the same lack of urgency that led to us over-relying on ceh. It took a 7th round pick playing out of his mind. We fixed the RB room through some degree of luck to find a gem that deep in the draft. We fixed our OL room through extreme urgency that led to an outstanding draft. I trust in veach to do that, but right now that means erasing a pretty poor recent track record.

As I’ve said before… veach has stepped up when it became urgent. So I don’t doubt we can pull it off. But it’s time we finally got it right. And it’s unacceptable to ask mahomes and kelce to carry this much weight on their shoulders just because they are talented. Get them some help, asap.

I partially agree with you here.

The Super Bowl loss was losing both OT's and not being particularly good inside, either. They'd developed Hudson, and they'd developed Morse; it just turned out that Reiter sucked balls. And Wylie, as we've established, blows goats. So, I mean, you know, you're not going to be two and three deep at OL with any quality.

Clyde was a bad pick, it's now clear, by any measure. Whether it was the injuries sapping whatever quicks he had or what, he's not good. Doesn't look like the same cat from LSU at all.

But the WR position was largely neglected for years because we had Hill, (and Watkins for a chunk of time ) and we had issues elsewhere that needed fixing. Being a GM is kind of like playing professional whack-a-mole.

Hardman was drafted during the Hill drama pt.2 Electric Boogaloo stuff, and you'll never convince me of anything other than Veach was trying to find a guy with a Hill-like skill-set just in case that all went sideways. So that's one #2 pick. Not a bust, exactly, but didn't develop into what we hoped. Was some of that due to being behind Hill? Well, injuries robbed us of finding out last year, but it doesn't seem Reid and Veach think so.

Pringle was what a 7th? Powell a 5th? And other than that, it's been cheap signings and UDFA types.

Until Moore, and I know a lot of people are really down on him, but I didn't expect he'd get a lot of reps with 4 vets in front of him. So there's a second #2 pick. And traded for Toney, a former #1 pick only one season removed.

So I'd say there's been a quite sudden and serious attempt to start adding talent to the room. You can't do it to the detriment of the rest of the football team (which was always my argument against a Dhop/OBJ type) but you can and must draft and develop guys in these expensive positions like DE, OT, CB, and WR if you're paying an elite QB.

I mean, it's just common sense.

[stevegroganfan]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I've always said that we're probably not getting DHop. I just don't like OBJ. My theory has always been some possession WR (hopefully more dynamic than JuJu).

But the problem with your argument is that you expect Toney to play 17 games. And you expect Skyy to improve his production rate by a factor of 4. That's about 120 targets to get to 80 catches. When's the last time we saw that happen? Not just in KC, I mean ever? Never mind that you can't compare him to C. Watson. The guy's 6'5" and runs like a deer. Skyy is neither.

I believe Skyy was compared to Julian Edelman even though they have different backgrounds...There are probably many other examples that are much better but Julian Edelman went from 235 yards to over 1050. Granted he played more games but huge part of increase was him just getting better and more of an opportunity. Edelman was a 7th round pick and college QB so it may have taken him longer than what it may take Skyy to really establish himself as a receiver.

The Chiefs had a top 3 offensive line that outplayed even the Eagles line in the Super Bowl. They have a great QB in Mahomes and Kelce who was in essence to top 1-5 receiver/TE in the game last year. Best TE for sure and not many receivers ahead of him.

If it wasn't about roster spots and more about cap space, Chiefs and even some other teams that have a great TE or receiver and need depth should have signed Nelson Agholor and Julio Jones.

Neither is great or even very good but both significantly better than the stats they have put up the past 1-2 years. Mac Jones and Patriots offensive line setup Agholor for failure. Bucs had bad offensive line/no run game and poor roster construction around Brady. Jones isn't old Julio but a little better than his stats indicate. Chiefs probably pass on him simply because Toney is injury prone and Jones is also injury prone.

When you have a great QB and a great offensive line and outstanding TE, you clearly don't need a number 1 receiver or even 2 strong #2's.

Chiefs have also shown they can succeed while playing more than one TE at once.

[Rainbarrel]

Instant gratification appears to be the domain of losers. Like what the Rams are right now

[Bump]

Originally Posted by Rainbarrel

Instant gratification appears to be the domain of losers. Like what the Rams are right now

I doubt they thought it wasn't worth it, a Superbowl win is the ultimate goal afterall.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by stevegroganfan

I believe Skyy was compared to Julian Edelman even though they have different backgrounds...There are probably many other examples that are much better but Julian Edelman went from 235 yards to over 1050. Granted he played more games but huge part of increase was him just getting better and more of an opportunity. Edelman was a 7th round pick and college QB so it may have taken him longer than what it may take Skyy to really establish himself as a receiver.

The Chiefs had a top 3 offensive line that outplayed even the Eagles line in the Super Bowl. They have a great QB in Mahomes and Kelce who was in essence to top 1-5 receiver/TE in the game last year. Best TE for sure and not many receivers ahead of him.

If it wasn't about roster spots and more about cap space, Chiefs and even some other teams that have a great TE or receiver and need depth should have signed Nelson Agholor and Julio Jones.

Neither is great or even very good but both significantly better than the stats they have put up the past 1-2 years. Mac Jones and Patriots offensive line setup Agholor for failure. Bucs had bad offensive line/no run game and poor roster construction around Brady. Jones isn't old Julio but a little better than his stats indicate. Chiefs probably pass on him simply because Toney is injury prone and Jones is also injury prone.

When you have a great QB and a great offensive line and outstanding TE, you clearly don't need a number 1 receiver or even 2 strong #2's.

Chiefs have also shown they can succeed while playing more than one TE at once.

Hell, I compared Skyy to Edelman when he was drafted. He may end up being similar, though I doubt he'll ever be as good. But 75-80% of Edelman would be worthwhile.

i disagree that KC's OL was better than PHI's. Strike that; that's not what you said. Yes, the KC OL did outplay PHI's OL in the SB. Some luck was involved. Just the fact that Wylie was our starting RT tells you something about how lucky we got. Field conditions helped our OL quite a bit in the SB, in particular Wylie's performance, but also OBJ's.

Also, I think Andy schemed up the right mix of moving pockets, chips, rushes (in the 2nd half), etc. to keep the PHI DL guessing instead of being able to pin their ears back on every snap. And of course they got extremely unlucky with the number and frequency of slipping with PHI EDGEs. 5-6 fewer slips by certain guys might've changed the outcome of the game.

The lack of reliable productive depth is concerning, I think to anyone that can read the stats of our current WR room. No, we don't need a true 1, but a solid 2 I think is absolutely necessary to get back to the SB. But maybe that's just me.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Bump

I doubt they thought it wasn't worth it, a Superbowl win is the ultimate goal afterall.

I think either Nick or Broussard said that a SB win was worth over 1 billion dollars in revenue to the winning team, so yeah, I'm sure they think it was worth it.

[Bump]

this is the one coaching staff that I think the Chiefs have had that I can remember, players actually do develop and get better over time. Back in the day, if the Chiefs drafted someone either they sucked and stayed suck or they were awesome at first, got paid and then sucked.

we'll be fine at WR. There's still the draft, Veach likes doing mid season trades and we have the guru designing plays and we have Travis Kelce.

[Hoover]

With a team with a core of Mahomes, Travis, Thuney and Jones, you have to have position groups were you go cheap, mainly through drafting talented young players.

Veach very well could have just decided that the WR is now a place where he will invest draft capital instead of salary cap money. I'm fine with it. I will know in about a month.

[Chris Meck]

Jeezus, it's nice to have a rational conversation about this. It's been awhile.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Bump

this is the one coaching staff that I think the Chiefs have had that I can remember, players actually do develop and get better over time. Back in the day, if the Chiefs drafted someone either they sucked and stayed suck or they were awesome at first, got paid and then sucked.

we'll be fine at WR. There's still the draft, Veach likes doing mid season trades and we have the guru designing plays and we have Travis Kelce.

Just bear in mind that we've never developed a WR in the Reid era, except Hill, and he's not a normal WR. It's very odd to me, when we have no problems developing RBs or even TEs, but it is what it is.

[Bump]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Just bear in mind that we've never developed a WR in the Reid era, except Hill, and he's not a normal WR. It's very odd to me, when we have no problems developing RBs or even TEs, but it is what it is.

ya that's true. Hardman kinda just stayed the same for his 4 years and suffered bad injuries last season. It's not entirely up to just the coaching staff, the player has to want to get better and do what's necessary to get better. When I looked at Tyreek, he's gotta be one of the most in-shape players in the NFL and you can tell he puts in all of the extra work required.

We haven't really drafted too many WR's. Skyy being the only 2nd rounder and I think there was Chris Conley in the 3rd. Robinson (5th?) And then Powell who's on the practice squad, I could be forgetting someone too.

I'm still crossing my fingers that Justynn Ross turns into that what coulda been player, if he didn't have that spinal cord issue and concussion in college he probably would have been a 1st round pick.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Just bear in mind that we've never developed a WR in the Reid era, except Hill, and he's not a normal WR. It's very odd to me, when we have no problems developing RBs or even TEs, but it is what it is.

Well, again, though, we really haven't tried other than Hardman, which was a bit of an emergency shot given the Hill situation at the time.

We've largely neglected to try for years.

But Moore in the 2nd, and Toney a 1st from the previous draft would indicate an intent.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Bump

ya that's true. Hardman kinda just stayed the same for his 4 years and suffered bad injuries last season. It's not entirely up to just the coaching staff, the player has to want to get better and do what's necessary to get better. When I looked at Tyreek, he's gotta be one of the most in-shape players in the NFL and you can tell he puts in all of the extra work required.

We haven't really drafted too many WR's. Skyy being the only 2nd rounder and I think there was Chris Conley in the 3rd. Robinson (5th?) And then Powell who's on the practice squad, I could be forgetting someone too.

I'm still crossing my fingers that Justynn Ross turns into that what coulda been player, if he didn't have that spinal cord issue and concussion in college he probably would have been a 1st round pick.

Reek had the advantage of speed/quickness, so he didn't have to be a great route-runner to get open. that quickness allowed him to avoid getting jammed and then he could just run by guys. He developed his release/stem/breaks as his career went on. But as a speed WR. He never had to be as precise about his footwork or his hand-fighting technique like a Larry Fitzgerald/Jerry Rice or more normal-speed WR.

'Normal' WRs have to have or acquire those kinds of skills or their time is short in the NFL. Skyy has nice footwork (still needs work, but he's further ahead than Hardman is right now) but he showed troubles getting off jams. I suspect he's working on that right now.

I'm not holding my breath as far as the Ross' are concerned. Any production Andy gets out of them will just be icing on the cake. doubt Andy can count on anything there.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, again, though, we really haven't tried other than Hardman, which was a bit of an emergency shot given the Hill situation at the time.

We've largely neglected to try for years.

But Moore in the 2nd, and Toney a 1st from the previous draft would indicate an intent.

Well, Andy has no real consistent history of developing WRs in PHI either. He had Jackson, who's really an advanced role player, and a couple 'decent' WRs he drafted, and that's about it. I'm not scared, but it's at least a concern.

Toney just needs to be healthy. I'm not really concerned whether people think he's a 1 or 2. He's a starter if he can be healthy, period. Problem is, he has no history of being able to do that.

Skyy . . . I want him to be good. I think at worst he could be a reliable short-range possession WR. On another team he'd probably spend his career in the slot.

But he has shortcomings that I'm not sure are all fixable by the last quarter of the 2023 season. I'm more than a little uncertain that Skyy will catch 80 balls this season. 50-55 seems a lot more realistic.