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**BigRedChief** · 02-13-2016, 01:12 AM

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.

SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-01-2016, 10:37 AM

When the savior dies the dynasty ends. It happened to the Celtics with Len Bias and they quickly fell apart. Taveras killing himself set a good deal of this in motion.

These are the kinds of things you often realize but don't want to say in the moment, because the act of acknowledging it makes it real.

This team's window closed when Taveras slammed his car into that tree. It sucks, and it's tragic, but that's just the way it is.

DJ's left nut · 07-01-2016, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

When the savior dies the dynasty ends. It happened to the Celtics with Len Bias and they quickly fell apart. Taveras killing himself set a good deal of this in motion.

These are the kinds of things you often realize but don't want to say in the moment, because the act of acknowledging it makes it real.

This team's window closed when Taveras slammed his car into that tree. It sucks, and it's tragic, but that's just the way it is.

Eh - Kile's death sure looked like it was going to put the franchise into a tailspin. They recovered from that nicely.

Theo killed the dynasty. He's simply better at this than Mozeliak.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-01-2016, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Eh - Kile's death sure looked like it was going to put the franchise into a tailspin. They recovered from that nicely.

Theo killed the dynasty. He's simply better at this than Mozeliak.

Yeah, but Kile was gonna be 34. The Cardinals lost six years of a likely elite player.

This team looks a lot different with two COFers like Piscotty and Taveras while getting a return of something valuable from Shelby Miller.

Maybe we could have held on to Shelby last year and talked TLR's stupid ass into giving us Dansby Swanson :\

**BigRedChief** · 07-01-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I just don't understand why the Cardinals expected anything else out of Grichuk.

Look - being a 25 HR mistake hitter can actually be valuable. But he's never been a guy that should've just been given the keys to CF (especially when his defensive profile is RF anyway).

He's not an everyday player. He's a fantastic 4th OFer who you should be able to find 300 ABs for in a given season. Expecting him to just learn to lay of sliders in the dirt after 7 years as a professional was silly.

In still liked the trade. Freese was batting .225 for a long time. Why not take a flyer on a couple of guys that had been given up for dead by another team? A gamble for sure but you are not giving up anything that is producing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

As for Wong - I reiterate: **** that guy in his face. The guy should've been a faster version of Jose Vidro but decided he was going to go cranking long-balls with his caveman centerfielder and wrecked himself after getting paid.

Who thought Wong would even be a central part of the future?

Any team can find an average 2B in baseball. Finding a CF is a helluva lot harder. Thats not Wong but its not Pham either.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-01-2016, 10:57 AM

Wong should have been a 2-3 WAR player through his cost-controlled seasons that we could have recouped a first round pick for when he left via FA.

Instead, he did what any golfer does if they want to ruin their career: he tried to add power. And guess what? He ruined his career. Now, he's not even worth having on the 40 man. He could have been a valuable piece if he wasn't so ****ing stupid.

Pasta Little Brioni · 07-01-2016, 10:57 AM

People were creaming over Wong in the not so distant past

Brent Williams · 07-02-2016, 10:35 PM

I would like to see them trade for Blackman of the Rockies. Maybe Adams,Wong,and a pitcher (Sam T.) would get him or is that too much? Could slide Blackman in the number 2 spot and have two guys at the top of the order who get on base a ton.

VAChief · 07-03-2016, 01:32 PM

Mets thrashing Arrieta and Lester back to back. Just get to the party and anything can happen.

**BigRedChief** · 07-03-2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief

Mets thrashing Arrieta and Lester back to back. Just get to the party and anything can happen.

we have beat Arietta the last two times we have faced him. We have beat Kershaw in the playoffs when he was on his game. We also got beat by people who we had no business losing too.

Just get into the tournament and see what happens indeed

Jewish Rabbi · 07-03-2016, 04:28 PM

No no no. The season is lost. We need all the distractions we can get.

Jewish Rabbi · 07-03-2016, 04:29 PM

Send ****ing Rosenthal to Springfield. Christ.

**BigRedChief** · 07-03-2016, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

Send ****ing Rosenthal to Springfield. Christ.

If he cant pitch the 7th inning, against the Brewers with a 6 run lead.... what good is he?

Jewish Rabbi · 07-03-2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

If he cant pitch the 7th inning, against the Brewers with a 6 run lead.... what good is he?

This game has just been an all around shit show. First pitch for Brewers tomorrow in DC less than 15 hours away.

Mi_chief_fan · 07-03-2016, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Theo killed the dynasty. He's simply better at this than Mozeliak.

Bullshit. Theo didn't build anything in Boston, it was in place when he took over; and Mozeliak hasn't had the luxury of being able to tank and pick Bryant #2. Also, look at how Theo left the Red Sox in shambles; thus far, his FA signings haven't been much better. Lackey's fine, Lester severely overpaid, and Heyward's a bust.

I'll give him credit for Arrieta, that was a nice move that paid off. The Rizzo trade worked out well. But let's not pretend that Theo is better than Mozeliak. He's not.

**BigRedChief** · 07-03-2016, 10:48 PM

In one of their most active and expensive days ever in the international market, the Cardinals landed teens from four different Latin American countries, including Cuba, while obliterating their spending limit and inviting penalties.

And they’re not done yet.

The Cardinals agreed to contracts with Cuban pitcher Johan Oviedo, 18, and Venezuelan outfielder Victor Garcia, 16, that individually included bonuses as large as the team has ever awarded. Oviedo, a 6-foot-6, 220-pound righthander received a bonus of $1.9 million, and slugger Garcia followed with $1.5 million, the same bonus Carlos Martinez received as a teen six years ago. The team also announced deals for 11 other international amateurs. Nine of the 13 signed were position players, an area where the Cardinals have not usually spent as freely.

The Cardinals also have an agreement in place with another outfielder, Cuba’s Jonatan Machado, though the deal is expected to be finalized later in the yearlong signing period, which opened Saturday.

“The group is heavier on position players with offensive upside,” wrote Moises Rodriguez in an email. Rodriguez, the Cardinals’ director of international operations, was traveling back from Venezuela on Sunday. “We emphasized that category throughout the evaluation process. The group is physical and athletic. We’re thrilled with the present hitting ability of guys like Carlos Soto (of Mexico) and Victor Garcia and the ceiling of kids like (Carlos) Soler.”
Soler, a 16-year-old outfielder from the Dominican Republic, received a bonus of $600,000, according to a source. He has one of the best outfield arms in the class and is considered a project offensively. According to Baseball America, he’s the 35th-best prospect available during this signing period.

Garcia was ranked No. 10 by the magazine.
The Venezuelan outfielder has the best power of the class, according to scouts, and the Cardinals have been scouting him and his peers for several years. A year ago, the Cardinals signed pitcher Alvaro Seijas out of Venezuela at a $762,500 bonus.

That has been the sweet spot for the Cardinals when it comes to international spending. The Cardinals signed Oscar Taveras ($145,000), Edmundo Sosa ($425,000), Alex Reyes ($950,000), and a handful of other top or recent prospects for less than a million. Meanwhile, big-bonus additions like Roberto De La Cruz ($1.1 million) and Wagner Mateo ($3.1 million) never reached the same status, and Mateo had his contract voided before putting on cleats.

The Cardinals entered this market with a $2,027,300 bonus limit. Major League Baseball sets the limit based on the standings, and the Cardinals had the smallest limit in the game. But the Cardinals eyed this July 2 class and the coming year as the time to be “very aggressive” with their spending because of at least two factors. First, a handful of teams — like the Cubs, Giants, and Dodgers — had their spending curtailed this summer by past bonuses, and that reduced the number of high-bidders.

Second, the new labor agreement being negotiated now could alter the rules for international spending.

The known bonuses for Oviedo, Garcia, Soler and Soto ($400,000) added up to $5.25 million already. The Cardinals will pay a dollar-for-dollar tax on the $3.2 million overage. They have exceeded the 15 percent penalty, meaning that their future spending could be limited to $300,000 bonuses or less in the next two summers, unless the rules change. The Cardinals have an agreement with Machado for a bonus around $2 million. MLB.com reported that its expected value is $2.3 million.

That will cost the Cardinals an additional $2.3 million in tax.

Machado, 16, is considered an elite runner and a contact-type hitter whose potential would be as a leadoff hitter from the left side. He’s 5-foot-9, nine inches shorter than his countryman the Cardinals also signed, Oviedo. The lanky righthander has a fastball that sits in the 92-94 mph range and can reach the upper registers, at 96 mph. He’s got a developing curve that needs to be tightened and some tutelage to improve his mechanics and thus consistency.

“Oviedo is someone we felt strongly about as a group and wanted to be aggressive with,” Rodriguez said. “At only 18, he’s physically impressive and moves well for his size. … (He) should quickly benefit from our pitching coaches. He has a chance to be an impact starter at the major-league level.”

Oviedo, catcher Soto, righthanded pitcher Enmaneul Solano (Dominican), and outfielder Diomedes Del Rio have been assigned to the Cardinals’ Dominican Summer League team. The other 10 players signed Saturday have been signed to 2017 minor-league deals.

This amateur signing period continues through next June.

02-13-2016, 01:12 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills BigRedChief's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water	*Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread* 2011 World Series Championship 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance. 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS. Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons. 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team. SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??: http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals 2015 III thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296 2015 II thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412 2015 I thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085 Last edited by BigRedChief; 03-30-2016 at 04:18 PM..
Posts: 79,254

07-01-2016, 10:37 AM	#1291
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! 'Hamas' Jenkins's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2006	When the savior dies the dynasty ends. It happened to the Celtics with Len Bias and they quickly fell apart. Taveras killing himself set a good deal of this in motion. These are the kinds of things you often realize but don't want to say in the moment, because the act of acknowledging it makes it real. This team's window closed when Taveras slammed his car into that tree. It sucks, and it's tragic, but that's just the way it is.
Posts: 74,848

07-01-2016, 10:57 AM	#1295
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! 'Hamas' Jenkins's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2006	Wong should have been a 2-3 WAR player through his cost-controlled seasons that we could have recouped a first round pick for when he left via FA. Instead, he did what any golfer does if they want to ruin their career: he tried to add power. And guess what? He ruined his career. Now, he's not even worth having on the 40 man. He could have been a valuable piece if he wasn't so ****ing stupid.
Posts: 74,848

07-01-2016, 10:57 AM	#1296
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A.	People were creaming over Wong in the not so distant past
Posts: 68,952

07-02-2016, 10:35 PM	#1297
Brent Williams Starter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Quincy,Illinois	I would like to see them trade for Blackman of the Rockies. Maybe Adams,Wong,and a pitcher (Sam T.) would get him or is that too much? Could slide Blackman in the number 2 spot and have two guys at the top of the order who get on base a ton.
Posts: 123

07-03-2016, 01:32 PM	#1298
VAChief Comfortably Numb Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Virginia	Mets thrashing Arrieta and Lester back to back. Just get to the party and anything can happen.
Posts: 5,556

07-03-2016, 04:28 PM	#1300
Jewish Rabbi What's up braj? Jewish Rabbi's Avatar Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Placencia, Belize	No no no. The season is lost. We need all the distractions we can get.
Posts: 15,667

07-03-2016, 04:29 PM	#1301
Jewish Rabbi What's up braj? Jewish Rabbi's Avatar Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Placencia, Belize	Send ****ing Rosenthal to Springfield. Christ.
Posts: 15,667

07-03-2016, 10:48 PM	#1305
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills BigRedChief's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water	In one of their most active and expensive days ever in the international market, the Cardinals landed teens from four different Latin American countries, including Cuba, while obliterating their spending limit and inviting penalties. And they’re not done yet. The Cardinals agreed to contracts with Cuban pitcher Johan Oviedo, 18, and Venezuelan outfielder Victor Garcia, 16, that individually included bonuses as large as the team has ever awarded. Oviedo, a 6-foot-6, 220-pound righthander received a bonus of $1.9 million, and slugger Garcia followed with $1.5 million, the same bonus Carlos Martinez received as a teen six years ago. The team also announced deals for 11 other international amateurs. Nine of the 13 signed were position players, an area where the Cardinals have not usually spent as freely. The Cardinals also have an agreement in place with another outfielder, Cuba’s Jonatan Machado, though the deal is expected to be finalized later in the yearlong signing period, which opened Saturday. “The group is heavier on position players with offensive upside,” wrote Moises Rodriguez in an email. Rodriguez, the Cardinals’ director of international operations, was traveling back from Venezuela on Sunday. “We emphasized that category throughout the evaluation process. The group is physical and athletic. We’re thrilled with the present hitting ability of guys like Carlos Soto (of Mexico) and Victor Garcia and the ceiling of kids like (Carlos) Soler.” Soler, a 16-year-old outfielder from the Dominican Republic, received a bonus of $600,000, according to a source. He has one of the best outfield arms in the class and is considered a project offensively. According to Baseball America, he’s the 35th-best prospect available during this signing period. Garcia was ranked No. 10 by the magazine. The Venezuelan outfielder has the best power of the class, according to scouts, and the Cardinals have been scouting him and his peers for several years. A year ago, the Cardinals signed pitcher Alvaro Seijas out of Venezuela at a $762,500 bonus. That has been the sweet spot for the Cardinals when it comes to international spending. The Cardinals signed Oscar Taveras ($145,000), Edmundo Sosa ($425,000), Alex Reyes ($950,000), and a handful of other top or recent prospects for less than a million. Meanwhile, big-bonus additions like Roberto De La Cruz ($1.1 million) and Wagner Mateo ($3.1 million) never reached the same status, and Mateo had his contract voided before putting on cleats. The Cardinals entered this market with a $2,027,300 bonus limit. Major League Baseball sets the limit based on the standings, and the Cardinals had the smallest limit in the game. But the Cardinals eyed this July 2 class and the coming year as the time to be “very aggressive” with their spending because of at least two factors. First, a handful of teams — like the Cubs, Giants, and Dodgers — had their spending curtailed this summer by past bonuses, and that reduced the number of high-bidders. Second, the new labor agreement being negotiated now could alter the rules for international spending. The known bonuses for Oviedo, Garcia, Soler and Soto ($400,000) added up to $5.25 million already. The Cardinals will pay a dollar-for-dollar tax on the $3.2 million overage. They have exceeded the 15 percent penalty, meaning that their future spending could be limited to $300,000 bonuses or less in the next two summers, unless the rules change. The Cardinals have an agreement with Machado for a bonus around $2 million. MLB.com reported that its expected value is $2.3 million. That will cost the Cardinals an additional $2.3 million in tax. Machado, 16, is considered an elite runner and a contact-type hitter whose potential would be as a leadoff hitter from the left side. He’s 5-foot-9, nine inches shorter than his countryman the Cardinals also signed, Oviedo. The lanky righthander has a fastball that sits in the 92-94 mph range and can reach the upper registers, at 96 mph. He’s got a developing curve that needs to be tightened and some tutelage to improve his mechanics and thus consistency. “Oviedo is someone we felt strongly about as a group and wanted to be aggressive with,” Rodriguez said. “At only 18, he’s physically impressive and moves well for his size. … (He) should quickly benefit from our pitching coaches. He has a chance to be an impact starter at the major-league level.” Oviedo, catcher Soto, righthanded pitcher Enmaneul Solano (Dominican), and outfielder Diomedes Del Rio have been assigned to the Cardinals’ Dominican Summer League team. The other 10 players signed Saturday have been signed to 2017 minor-league deals. This amateur signing period continues through next June.
Posts: 79,254