Carolina really traded it all for this

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That was my biggest argument in the Mahomes/Watson debate.

The folks that liked Watson did some of the same stupid "He's a winner" shit and my response was always - "yeah, but if it WORKs, what do you have?"

And when you really started looking at Watson you saw a guy who's accuracy was fine. Who's arm was actually a tick below average for an NFL quarterback. Who wasn't terribly mobile. Who's decisionmaking couldn't really be gauged because he had a really simple offense and premier players around him.

Whereas with Mahomes you could see tools that just screamed off the screen. If it worked, you knew you had an All Pro talent (in my wildest dreams I didn't see "Best QB to ever do it" and I loved the kid).

With Young, even if it worked, you weren't getting much out of it. Average for a short period of time was all you were getting. I will ignore (and did in this thread) every single Brees comp ever made. He's an exception that proves the rule. So at Young's size, there was literally no floor either.

Like I said, I can handle guys with no floor (Leaf, Russell, and like you said - Mahomes) if the ceiling is so high that it justifies it. And hell, I can understand (even if I disagree) the argument for taking a guy like Watson who's high floor would seem to offset the low ceiling.

But Young had a low ceiling and no floor. It was just dumb from the moment it was first rumored.

Agreed. And Ill also eat the L on Watson being good being the **** it chuck it to DHop dude.

Mahomes was viewed as a giant risk, but somehow Bryce Young was a good idea?

I thought maybe his accuracy and mobility would drag him through to mediocrity, but obviously his accuracy went from good to ****tarded when he tossed his fundementals out the window and he thinks he's more mobile than he is and it gets his ass in trouble.

He was absolutely a horrible decision and it's playing out as poorly as possible.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Agreed. And Ill also eat the L on Watson being good being the **** it chuck it to DHop dude.

Mahomes was viewed as a giant risk, but somehow Bryce Young was a good idea?

I thought maybe his accuracy and mobility would drag him through to mediocrity, but obviously his accuracy went from good to ****tarded when he tossed his fundementals out the window and he thinks he's more mobile than he is and it gets his ass in trouble.

He was absolutely a horrible decision and it's playing out as poorly as possible.

About Watson's second year, when everyone was blaming his OL, I watched him play a couple games and said "Hey guys, you realize that Watson is KILLING his OL, right?"

It was pretty apparent early on that Watson was getting a whole bunch of excuses made for him that just didn't check out upon actual observation.

[Otter]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Agreed. And Ill also eat the L on Watson being good being the **** it chuck it to DHop dude.

Mahomes was viewed as a giant risk, but somehow Bryce Young was a good idea?

I thought maybe his accuracy and mobility would drag him through to mediocrity, but obviously his accuracy went from good to ****tarded when he tossed his fundementals out the window and he thinks he's more mobile than he is and it gets his ass in trouble.

He was absolutely a horrible decision and it's playing out as poorly as possible.

Can't train a guy to be able to see over his linemen.

[Couch-Potato]

Good takes! Thanks for the read.

[kccrow]

It's just not a good idea to draft a midget to play QB in the NFL. It's really that simple.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kccrow

It's just not a good idea to draft a midget to play QB in the NFL. It's really that simple.

Revolutionary concept, eh?

It's just so strange to me that the Panthers (and evidently other teams/draft gurus) didn't see what was so clear on its face.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by kccrow

It's just not a good idea to draft a midget to play QB in the NFL. It's really that simple.

Doug Flutie has been one of one of QBs under 5'10 so far in the NFL. Kyler Murray shows flashes, but I don't think he has it in him to sustain it over a decade+ career.


Here's a question - if we didn't have Bailey Zappe as the heir apparent to Carson Wentz's job next year, would you take Bryce Young as Mahomes' backup if the Panthers unceremoniously dumped him this upcoming offseason? Personally, I'd say no, but knowing Andy as the QB whisperer he is, I might be intrigued to find out what he could do with the kid.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Doug Flutie has been one of one of QBs under 5'10 so far in the NFL. Kyler Murray shows flashes, but I don't think he has it in him to sustain it over a decade+ career.


Here's a question - if we didn't have Bailey Zappe as the heir apparent to Carson Wentz's job next year, would you take Bryce Young as Mahomes' backup if the Panthers unceremoniously dumped him this upcoming offseason? Personally, I'd say no, but knowing Andy as the QB whisperer he is, I might be intrigued to find out what he could do with the kid.

No....NO...NOOOOOOO

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Doug Flutie has been one of one of QBs under 5'10 so far in the NFL. Kyler Murray shows flashes, but I don't think he has it in him to sustain it over a decade+ career.


Here's a question - if we didn't have Bailey Zappe as the heir apparent to Carson Wentz's job next year, would you take Bryce Young as Mahomes' backup if the Panthers unceremoniously dumped him this upcoming offseason? Personally, I'd say no, but knowing Andy as the QB whisperer he is, I might be intrigued to find out what he could do with the kid.

Based on everything I can find, Young measured 5’10 & 1/8” at the combine. That’s the exact same height as Kyler and half an inch shorter than Russell Wilson.

You mention Flutie and, tbh, I’d be surprised if Brees measured higher than 5’11” by his late 2010 seasons.

I’m not really sure height or weight are the culprits here.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Based on everything I can find, Young measured 5’10 & 1/8” at the combine. That’s the exact same height as Kyler and half an inch shorter than Russell Wilson.

You mention Flutie and, tbh, I’d be surprised if Brees measured higher than 5’11” by his late 2010 seasons.

I’m not really sure height or weight are the culprits here.

Flutie wasn't that great. His career was under 55% and he struggled most of the time with TD:INT ratio. He really only had one legitimately solid season in his entire career. He's just a nice story coming from the CFL and being small but it certainly doesn't make him good.

Kyler and Russell are legitimately 25-30 pounds heavier than Midget. Midget artificially inflated his weight, which he can't carry, for the combine.

Not only does the real weight matter but the arm strength. Kyler and Russell have way stronger arms than Young. They can make those off-platform throws you have to make if you're short and can't make traditional throws over the top.

Flutie is the best Young could ever hope to be and I just don't see it.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Flutie wasn't that great. His career was under 55% and he struggled most of the time with TD:INT ratio. He really only had one legitimately solid season in his entire career. He's just a nice story coming from the CFL and being small but it certainly doesn't make him good.

Kyler and Russell are legitimately 25-30 pounds heavier than Midget. Midget artificially inflated his weight, which he can't carry, for the combine.

Not only does the real weight matter but the arm strength. Kyler and Russell have way stronger arms than Young. They can make those off-platform throws you have to make if you're short and can't make traditional throws over the top.

Flutie is the best Young could ever hope to be and I just don't see it.

Sure, but 55% completion back in those days wasn’t terrible. For reference, Elway was just under 57% and Marino ended his career at 59%.

I’m not saying he was great, but you don’t stick around the league for that long if you’re truly terrible.

It may be a combination of factors for Young. I’m just not sure the reason for the difference in performance between Bryce Young and Drew Brees, who was also short, slight and had a relatively weak arm, is just an inch’s worth of height.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Flutie wasn't that great. His career was under 55% and he struggled most of the time with TD:INT ratio. He really only had one legitimately solid season in his entire career. He's just a nice story coming from the CFL and being small but it certainly doesn't make him good.

Kyler and Russell are legitimately 25-30 pounds heavier than Midget. Midget artificially inflated his weight, which he can't carry, for the combine.

Not only does the real weight matter but the arm strength. Kyler and Russell have way stronger arms than Young. They can make those off-platform throws you have to make if you're short and can't make traditional throws over the top.

Flutie is the best Young could ever hope to be and I just don't see it.

So how bad will this pick end up being in a historical sense?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Doug Flutie has been one of one of QBs under 5'10 so far in the NFL. Kyler Murray shows flashes, but I don't think he has it in him to sustain it over a decade+ career.


Here's a question - if we didn't have Bailey Zappe as the heir apparent to Carson Wentz's job next year, would you take Bryce Young as Mahomes' backup if the Panthers unceremoniously dumped him this upcoming offseason? Personally, I'd say no, but knowing Andy as the QB whisperer he is, I might be intrigued to find out what he could do with the kid.

I'd rather have Bailey Zappe.

You can't run an NFL offense with this guy under center. You have to change everything.

A big part of being a viable backup QB is versatility. It's why Tebow was never going to work in that regard. It's why Kaepernick wouldn't. It's why a guy like Tyler Huntley can be a backup QB in Baltimore behind Lamar or maybe Murray, but wouldn't work about anywhere else.

Your backup has to match styles with your starter.

Young doesn't match styles with anyone.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Said this during the '23 preseason before he ever played a regular season down. You could just tell he didn't belong out there with real NFL players.

Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks

I see absolutely no way that Bryce Young becomes an above-average NFL QB. Maybe I’ll be spectacularly wrong, but I just don’t see it.