****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by -King-

I just can't understand what happened to the slants in this offense. Those were money plays and Rice is built for that

I don't know. I really don't. I would love to ask Andy Reid this very question.

It's THE bread and butter of the West Coast offense going back to Bill Walsh and even Don Coryell (whom Walsh borrowed a lot of the concepts from).

It's quick, it helps your O-line, it helps your QB, it simplifies things, and we just flat don't do it hardly ever.

[Sassy Squatch]

Rice and Toney absolutely could've been those guys working the intermediate part of the field, but coaching shoehorned them into gadget roles instead. We can't do anything deep downfield because MVS has regressed to the point Mahomes won't even target him and Hardman has been injured.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I want to see what this coaching stuff does with actual WR talent next year bc they were the best in the league last year when they had the horses.

It's. The. Same. Room. Literally. Outside of JJSS and he was a complete non factor down the stretch outside of two drives in the second half of the Super Bowl.

From Christmas Eve on he had 10 receptions over 5 games until we got to the Super Bowl. Acting like he's some key cog we desperately miss is just complete bupkus.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Rice and Toney absolutely could've been those guys working the intermediate part of the field, but coaching shoehorned them into gadget roles instead. We can't do anything deep downfield because MVS has regressed to the point Mahomes won't even target him and Hardman has been injured.

Yeah, this theory that defenses adjusted is hooey, too. They're not doing anything new, our guys just can't catch balls that hit them in the hands.

If they catch the ball at a league average rate, we're 14-3 probably and on cruise control to repeat as champs and nobody even thinks anything about it.

There's always got to be some big change, some new scheme, something for some people.

Sometimes it's just guys either playing like shit or playing great. These players all played noticeably worse than last year. Like WAY worse. Like HOLY SHIT WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS worse.

I don't know who to blame exactly, but I think maybe the offensive un-coordinator might have something to do with it.

[RunKC]

They ran the same exact play that Sammy scored at :27 in that video to Toney. Yeah..

Kadarius Toney’s drop leads to a Patriots INT…
pic.twitter.com/vumuPTG0Hz

— NFL Retweet (@NFLRT) December 17, 2023

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by RunKC

With Mecole/Richie being hurt most of the games and Ross being out half the season, we've given our snap counts to:

Rice
MVS
Watson
Skyy
Toney

Is there a single WR unit across the league you say is worse than this group collectively? I'm not sure I put our group over a single team in the league.

And we say this isn't primarily a personnel problem?

Nope. The sad part is Toney should be better than this. It’s never a question of talent with him, it’s always been health. His mental breakdowns hurt this team more than anything this season.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Man, you gotta stop with this shit. It's nonsense.

'catch and run' is not a negative, ever. It's a description of a positive attribute. It simply means a guy is a good open field runner with the ball.

Tyreek was a good 'catch and run' receiver. Juju, when both knees worked, is a good catch and run receiver. So is Hopkins, Hollywood Brown, AJ Brown, Aiyuk, Deebo, you name it-in fact, name any great WR and I'll show you a good 'catch and run' receiver. It just means they've got a chance for a big play anytime you can get it to them in space.

You've latched on to this phrase like it somehow explains something, and you have no idea what you're talking about.

There's plenty of pure speed in the WR room. There's a couple of big guys, there are some shifty guys, some guys that were supposed to be good route runners...they are not any ONE type. Other than the fact that the entire group all shit the bed simultaneously, there is little in common between them. (Other than Rice, of course).

Yes. Those guys are catch and run guys who can also run routes and go downfield. We have guys who can only catch and run.who HAVE to do it because if it's not some quick spoonfed route now all of a sudden these guys have to run actual routes, read the defense, make contested catches… and our guys do all of those things very poorly.

You can have catch and run specialists IF you have guys to play off of and we don't have that. And so you have clearout guys like Mvs who are worthless when the guys underneath become easy to take away and you have catch and run guys who are meaningless because defenses are begging us to stretch the field.

These guys didn’t just shit the bed simultaneously as if these guys were world beaters. We put way too much faith in these guys taking an expanded role and they flat out couldn’t.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by -King-

I just can't understand what happened to the slants in this offense. Those were money plays and Rice is built for that

I have said the same thing all year. Almost every time we have a receiver that catches a slant, or a shallow crosser, it results in a very positive play.

Then we will go the rest of the game and not call a slant, drag route or crosser.

I don't know for sure, but I think Nagy is part of the game planning, and he seems to have no feel for how to set up a defense. The offense, when EB was the OC, would run plays in the first and second quarter, that got used against the defense late in the game.

EB, or I should say the offense while EB was the OC, seemed to build upon successful plays throughout the game, making it harder and harder for the defense to know what play was coming from any given formation.

This offense is random, with no rhyme or reason to any play call.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

I have said the same thing all year. Almost every time we have a receiver that catches a slant, or a shallow crosser, it results in a very positive play.

Then we will go the rest of the game and not call a slant, drag route or crosser.

I don't know for sure, but I think Nagy is part of the game planning, and he seems to have no feel for how to set up a defense. The offense, when EB was the OC, would run plays in the first and second quarter, that got used against the defense late in the game.

EB, or I should say the offense while EB was the OC, seemed to build upon successful plays throughout the game, making it harder and harder for the defense to know what play was coming from any given formation.

This offense is random, with no rhyme or reason to any play call.

Yep. Nagy blows.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Yes. Those guys are catch and run guys who can also run routes and go downfield. We have catch and run guys who HAVE to do it because if it's not some quick spoonfed route now all of a sudden these guys have to run actual routes, read the defense, make contested catches… and our guys do all of those things very poorly.

You can have catch and run specialists IF you have guys who can run then catch and we do not have that. And so you have clearout guys like Mvs who are worthless when the guys underneath become easy to take away and you have catch and run guys who are meaningless because defenses are begging us to stretch the field.

These guys didn’t just shit the bed simultaneously as if these guys were world beaters. We put way too much faith in these guys taking an expanded role and they flat out couldn’t.

what kind of backwards walking shit is this?

MVS is a deep threat who suddenly (and yes, suddenly. His catch rate on almost strictly deep balls is 50% for his career, which isn't terrible considering his usage) can't catch anything at all.

If he simply catches TWO balls he's dropped, we win two more games.

If Toney simply drops the ball into the dirt instead of into a defender's hands for a pick 6, we win at least one more, possibly two.

With NOTHING else different. Like everything else just as ****ed up and disjointed.

You've been on this 'catch and run' thing as a catch phrase for months now, using it as a term to explain the opposite of apparently guys that can beat coverage. or something. It's nonsense.

These guys all shit the bed simultaneously. Moore you can say just never had it, but that's not been the case for MVS in his role, or Toney-who's only question prior to this season was health.

All three just flat fell apart. These were heroes of the '22 play-offs and Super Bowl. All they had to do was just be average and it would have been fine.

'Catch and run' is not a description of a type of receiver. It's a plus skill. Seeking out 'catch and run' receivers is not the reason KC's receivers suck. They suck because one just apparently can't get open at the NFL level, and two can't catch the ball.

It just means guys who are good with the ball in their hands. That's all. It doesn't mean what you've been trying to paint all of this time.

These guys suck because they've gone mentally soft and cracked under the pressure.

Defenses didn't make some grand adjustment. They do the same stuff they've always done. There's no great strategy change, other than they don't bother to double MVS deep as they know he won't catch it anyway.

There's no big adjustment. There's no such thing as a 'catch and run' receiver type.

It's ****ing nonsense.

[Chris Meck]

I'm not saying they are.

I think they're broken. I don't think there's any fixing them. They're mentally ****ed.

But this 'catch and run' tagline is bullshit.

It doesn't signify what you think it signifies.

[KCJake]

I’m really hoping Hardman will be good for a handful of big plays Saturday. Damn we need to play well to win this game. I’m nervous. Our offense can’t 3 and out all damn game. Come on boys !!!!!!!!

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

what kind of backwards walking shit is this?

MVS is a deep threat who suddenly (and yes, suddenly. His catch rate on almost strictly deep balls is 50% for his career, which isn't terrible considering his usage) can't catch anything at all.

If he simply catches TWO balls he's dropped, we win two more games.

If Toney simply drops the ball into the dirt instead of into a defender's hands for a pick 6, we win at least one more, possibly two.

With NOTHING else different. Like everything else just as ****ed up and disjointed.

You've been on this 'catch and run' thing as a catch phrase for months now, using it as a term to explain the opposite of apparently guys that can beat coverage. or something. It's nonsense.

These guys all shit the bed simultaneously. Moore you can say just never had it, but that's not been the case for MVS in his role, or Toney-who's only question prior to this season was health.

All three just flat fell apart. These were heroes of the '22 play-offs and Super Bowl. All they had to do was just be average and it would have been fine.

'Catch and run' is not a description of a type of receiver. It's a plus skill. Seeking out 'catch and run' receivers is not the reason KC's receivers suck. They suck because one just apparently can't get open at the NFL level, and two can't catch the ball.

It just means guys who are good with the ball in their hands. That's all. It doesn't mean what you've been trying to paint all of this time.

These guys suck because they've gone mentally soft and cracked under the pressure.

Defenses didn't make some grand adjustment. They do the same stuff they've always done. There's no great strategy change, other than they don't bother to double MVS deep as they know he won't catch it anyway.

There's no big adjustment. There's no such thing as a 'catch and run' receiver type.

It's ****ing nonsense.

I mean good grief.. How good do you think toney and Mvs were prior to a great run last season? Mvs has always been erratic. Always. Toney has dome nothing but flash and people took a very small sample size and assumed he could be an every down reliable receiver. Sure these guys have regressed some. But glorifying these guys as if they have been anything but, at best, spare parts much of their career is ridiculous.

And yeah these guys are mostly catch and run. You think these guys are capable of doing things before a catch to be consistent targets? Simple shit like running the right route, finding spots in the zone, adjusting to what the defense gives them, hell even peewee level skills at making catch adjustments? No. At best most of these guys can catch something short and get YAC. This is why mahomes has atrocious air yards this season. You cannot build an entire offense around guys who are atrocious at doing basic downfield shit. And there is only so far you can take it when all your guys are specialists who can do one thing kinda well (not even exceptionally well) but is bad beyond that.

Yeah defenses did make adjustments. Buffalo evolved their scheme out of 12/13 because of Dawson knoxs injury and has seen way more success out of 11. Defenses are DARING us to throw downfield and if we had even remotely decent downfield targets we could throttle teams. God I saw ceedee lamb the other day and was jealous watching the guy run a simple out route. Yeah we CAN run an efficient enough offense if we just clean up mistakes. We should be better though very flawed. That is way different from the expectation that we have the right players if they wold just clean up their mistakes.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks

I was frustrated with Rice's usage also, but to be fair, he finished 2nd to Puka in total receiving yards.

Ahead of Addison, JSN, Flowers, Hyatt, Q Johnston, etc.

That speaks more to Rice's YAC talent than how Reid and Nagy used him. If they used him like how all those other rookie WRs were used, he would have been an immediate impact instead of us having to wait till week 10 to see him get more than 75% of snaps and he would have been used downfield a whole lot more.

Pukas ADOT was 9.1
Addison 12.5
Flowers 8.4


Rashee Rice's ADOT was 4.8, almost half of the next lowest on that list. They were used as real wide receivers. Rice was used as a gadget guy. He was a maximized Mecole Hardman. To win in the playoffs, Reid has to draw up better plays for him. The talent is there.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I'm not saying they are.

I think they're broken. I don't think there's any fixing them. They're mentally ****ed.

But this 'catch and run' tagline is bullshit.

It doesn't signify what you think it signifies.

It isn't bullshit. Skyy even if he was what he thought he was never projected to be anything but a low depth of target option. So was James. We thought toney could create before the catch but turns out he is best suited for getting the ball in space then creating after the catch. Mvs is more of a run then catch guy but at best he's just doing basic clear out shit, with mecole being a variation of the guy who's more dangerous as a space WR with occasional deep breakaway potential (but overall a mostly subpar technical WR)

These guys aren't just mentally fried. They don't run basic routes or have the football iq to be particularly effective before the catch. So instead most of their weaponry is built around throwing the ball to them in space so they can create after the catch. That's why you have a clearout option like Mvs whose only job is to clear out space underneath. It's either short or the occasional boom/bust deep shot for us. And that needs to change. We've gotta have better pure WRS and not just athletes who can create after catching a wide open ball schemed open for them