****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's good to have depth, but it also loses a year of cheap labor with a draft pick sitting. If it's at QB, we obviously were and should be ok there. But hindsight.....there were other directions they could have went there and got quicker results.

Long term though, taking the DE is fine with me. But he needs to hit the ground running next year. There's not really time for "development".

Don't disagree at at all with this, but they got an immediate contribution from Rice, and Morris is now our starting LT.

They can't all have an immediate impact. At least he one that isn't is playing in a really good room with depth.

It's not like we won't need him next year with Danna gone.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Don't disagree at at all with this, but they got an immediate contribution from Rice, and Morris is now our starting LT.

They can't all have an immediate impact. At least he one that isn't is playing in a really good room with depth.

It's not like we won't need him next year with Danna gone.

I'm always just a "you learn by playing guy". I don't like the redshirt years for any spots other than QB. It loses a year of that rookie deal.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm always just a "you learn by playing guy". I don't like the redshirt years for any spots other than QB. It loses a year of that rookie deal.

That's fine, but the Chiefs clearly disagree. They drafted FAU for 2024 and beyond, not for this year.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

That's fine, but the Chiefs clearly disagree. They drafted FAU for 2024 and beyond, not for this year.

And?

They disagreed with alot of people on the Sky situation. They're wrong sometimes. Not that they are here by any means, just in general.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

And?

They disagreed with alot of people on the Sky situation. They're wrong sometimes.

I never said they aren't. I'm simply talking about your philosophy versus theirs.

But since you seem to be fishing for an argument how can you say this:

Originally Posted by O.city

People tend to expect too much from the draft.

It's largely a crap shoot.

...while also being so stuck on your little rules?

Edge rusher is a position where most guys don't do much their rookie years. It is what it is.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by O.city

And?

They disagreed with alot of people on the Sky situation. They're wrong sometimes. Not that they are here by any means, just in general.

Not having enough quality depth has burned this team in the past.

You can never have enough pass rushers.

These are truths that lead to drafting FAU.

The fact that he's behind Karlaftis, Omenihu, and Danna as well as sometimes Jones is not an indication that he sucks.

But if one of those guys had gone down? We'd be glad we had FAU. We may still, the season is not over.

Next year, we will almost certainly lose Danna and Jones.

And FAU will be in the rotation with Karlaftis and Omenihu. You're probably not going to have Jones, so you'll probably see all three in on passing downs in the 'Nascar package' that Spags used to beat the undefeated Patriots in the Super Bowl.

Don't worry about it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

I never said they aren't. I'm simply talking about your philosophy versus theirs.

But since you seem to be fishing for an argument how can you say this:



...while also being so stuck on your little rules?

Edge rusher is a position where most guys don't do much their rookie years. It is what it is.

Eh - I think it's fair to expect SOMETHING from a first round pick. And if you take a guy in the 1st who you don't have a role for, you maybe should've taken a different player with that pick.

1 year in FAU hasn't really forced the issue much, if at all. I mean it's not like Omenihu, Danna or even Karlaftis can't kick inside to create snaps for FAU, especially in situations where a little more agility/bend could be a really handy addition to the pass rush.

It just appears he may not be NFL ready. In the first round, that's a disappointment. Most guys who go on to have really productive NFL careers did SOMETHING more than we've seen from FAU to this point. And most 1st rounders who don't see a 2nd contract are guys who struggle to make an impact as a rookie.

I'd even like to see some sort of fairly substantial impact from a 2nd rounder. I really don't think you start drafting 'for next season' until you're looking at toolsy guys in the 3rd who need serious technique work. To me, that's the difference between a guy you take in the top 30 and a guy you take in the top 75. Are you going to get 4 productive years on that rookie deal? If not, you've torched some capital to no real impact unless you think said player will emerge as a genuine star in the next year or two.

It's fair to start to wonder about the FAU pick.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's good to have depth, but it also loses a year of cheap labor with a draft pick sitting. If it's at QB, we obviously were and should be ok there. But hindsight.....there were other directions they could have went there and got quicker results.

Long term though, taking the DE is fine with me. But he needs to hit the ground running next year. There's not really time for "development".

He's still cheap for 4 more years after this one. And yes planning ahead is a big deal for every team. And he is playing. He's getting 5-7 snaps a game, mainly on rushes.

You're probably losing Danna and Chris, so of course you need FAU ready to contribute with Karlaftis and Omenihu next year.

We were kind of in no man's land though. Everyone we had ranked highly came off the board and we took BPA. The only guy we could regret that was taken after him that was first rd worthy was Sam La Porta

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Catch rate is just receptions divided by targets. It doesn't take into account passes defensed, off the mark or maybe just flat dirted.

From what I can see, the receivers have had 177 'catchable balls' thrown to them this year (i.e. not deflected, defensed or otherwise off the mark) and have dropped 15. Obviously drop stats are unreliable as hell; one mans drop is another man's pass breakup, so there's going to be some signal noise in there, but even presuming that number to be ridiculously low, let's just set it to 27 for the sake of easy math (nearly doubling it) you'd still have 150 of 177 balls caught -- About 85% of them.

Take Rice out of it - 106 catchable balls thrown, 12 drops. And again, you can add 10 to that that number (with no real cause other than being simply conservative in the analysis) and you have 84 catches on 106 catchable passes. That's still 80%.

Again, throw it on time, on target and to the open receiver and the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that the guy's gonna catch it. Catching 4 of 5 catchable balls is statistically AWFUL. Over large numbers it would be among the worst receiving seasons of all time. And yet it's STILL a better idea than taking a sack or forcing a ball into triple coverage because you won't go through your progressions due to 'trust issues'.

Whoever's running the route, you have to run the offense like he's going to catch it. Because the odds suggest that if the ball gets to him, he will. All emotional outbursts to the contrary.

But let’s consider why mahomes is so frustrated with these mistakes. Because our best path right now is to execute long plodding drives. A missed pass sets up a 3rd and long which have more and more felt like death sentences. It’s not just frustrating to kill a drive, it’s even worse when the offense works so hard to march downfield only to be killed by 1 mistake.

I want our offense to be more aggressive. But right now our best shot is to run long drives and cut out the mistakes. Which also helps out our defense. A 4 yard pass to Noah gray may be unsexy but it’s better than an incompletion on an aggressive pass that sets up 3rd and long. It’s less about throwing more to kelce into triple coverage and more about spreading targets to our other TEs and RBs. Kelce and rice can eat much of the rest.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Not having enough quality depth has burned this team in the past.

You can never have enough pass rushers.

These are truths that lead to drafting FAU.

The fact that he's behind Karlaftis, Omenihu, and Danna as well as sometimes Jones is not an indication that he sucks.

But if one of those guys had gone down? We'd be glad we had FAU. We may still, the season is not over.

Next year, we will almost certainly lose Danna and Jones.

And FAU will be in the rotation with Karlaftis and Omenihu. You're probably not going to have Jones, so you'll probably see all three in on passing downs in the 'Nascar package' that Spags used to beat the undefeated Patriots in the Super Bowl.

Don't worry about it.

Oh sure, there's plenty of time for the story to be written here.

But man, if you're drafting for next season, aren't you better served taking someone like maybe YaYa Diaby in the 3rd? Is there any difference at all in the long-term ceilings for FAU and say Adetomiwa Adebawore who some liked in the 2nd and fell to the 4th? If 'hey, he's quality depth we'll be happy to have in 2024' is your goal with the pick, shouldn't you be waiting a couple rounds to attack that?

I mean bottom line is that if we'd have gone with Rice, Morris, FAU in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, everyone would be falling over themselves about the greatness of the draft. "Hey we got a long-term starter at WR and LT, not to mention a guy with first round talent that fell to the 3rd for some reason in FAU all the way down in the 3rd...." so it's hard to complain too much. I mean afterall, if we'd have gone LaPorta and Rice in 1 and 2 and then took Adebawore in the 3rd, we wouldn't have Wanya. Conner in the 4th looks like a ballplayer in his own right so maybe you could squint and say "We could've taken Morris in the 4th..." but then we lose Conner and at a point you can't just keep pushing all the guys we DID take down a round. It's not realistic to do so.

But It definitely would've been nice to see FAU force himself onto the scene. Not doing so has to be at least a little concerning.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

But let’s consider why mahomes is so frustrated with these mistakes. Because our best path right now is to execute long plodding drives. A missed pass sets up a 3rd and long which have more and more felt like death sentences. It’s not just frustrating to kill a drive, it’s even worse when the offense works so hard to march downfield only to be killed by 1 mistake.

I want our offense to be more aggressive. But right now our best shot is to run long drives and cut out the mistakes. Which also helps out our defense. A 4 yard pass to Noah gray may be unsexy but it’s better than an incompletion on an aggressive pass that sets up 3rd and long. It’s less about throwing more to kelce into triple coverage and more about spreading targets to our other TEs and RBs. Kelce and rice can eat much of the rest.

We're committing penalties all over the place, including our OL. Our execution simply isn't precise enough for the short, plodding drives. And its made all the more problematic by the fact that we built an OL for pass pro and not power running so we don't really have the ground and pound element to fall back on either.

I feel like turning this into the 2016 offense is simply putting a cap on the offense that we won't be able to overcome. Run it like you're trying to win a championship and not a soft division. We can win a soft AFC West doing what you're suggesting - we're not winning a title doing that.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Oh sure, there's plenty of time for the story to be written here.

But man, if you're drafting for next season, aren't you better served taking someone like maybe YaYa Diaby in the 3rd? Is there any difference at all in the long-term ceilings for FAU and say Adetomiwa Adebawore who some liked in the 2nd and fell to the 4th? If 'hey, he's quality depth we'll be happy to have in 2024' is your goal with the pick, shouldn't you be waiting a couple rounds to attack that?

I mean bottom line is that if we'd have gone with Rice, Morris, FAU in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, everyone would be falling over themselves about the greatness of the draft. "Hey we got a long-term starter at WR and LT, not to mention a guy with first round talent that fell to the 3rd for some reason in FAU all the way down in the 3rd...." so it's hard to complain too much. I mean afterall, if we'd have gone LaPorta and Rice in 1 and 2 and then took Adebawore in the 3rd, we wouldn't have Wanya. Conner in the 4th looks like a ballplayer in his own right so maybe you could squint and say "We could've taken Morris in the 4th..." but then we lose Conner and at a point you can't just keep pushing all the guys we DID take down a round. It's not realistic to do so.

But It definitely would've been nice to see FAU force himself onto the scene. Not doing so has to be at least a little concerning.

Well, sure, but we're also in a season where an entire position group regressed to damned near unplayable. So some insurance isn't something I'm going to fault anyone for.

And Danna's taken a big step forward, so I think while it's fair to question the FAU pick, and hindsight may have you wishing we'd taken a different player, we didn't know how it would play out in year one.

As per my usual, I'm just saying it's too early to make any declarations.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Umm he's a rookie playing behind 3 really good edge rushers dude. Who's snaps are you cutting back to get him more? Karlaftis? Danna? Omenihu? Hell, even Jones gets his fair share of snaps at edge.

This is a great problem to have.

Since the bye he's played 23 snaps in 5 games. Total. Matt Dickerson has 52 in that same time frame. I expected him to be behind Karlaftis and Omenihu, and Danna has been a very pleasant surprise, but I expected him to be able to earn playing time over bums like Dickerson at this point in the season.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Since the bye he's played 23 snaps in 5 games. Total. Matt Dickerson has 52 in that same time frame. I expected him to be behind Karlaftis and Omenihu, and Danna has been a very pleasant surprise, but I expected him to be able to earn playing time over bums like Dickerson at this point in the season.

They play different positions. You're aware of that, right?

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Since the bye he's played 23 snaps in 5 games. Total. Matt Dickerson has 52 in that same time frame. I expected him to be behind Karlaftis and Omenihu, and Danna has been a very pleasant surprise, but I expected him to be able to earn playing time over bums like Dickerson at this point in the season.

lol wut?

Him and Dickerson don't even play the same position.

Our DE group is really good. Our DT group is really bad (outside of Jones obviously).