****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Pretty sure he trusts the rookie WR and Watson and that evident last Sunday.

I wouldn't trust MVS, Skyy or Toney either. That's half of the ****ing WR room

For sure.

But again, the "experiment" is because of his contract.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Are you new to the NFL?

No, the 'science experiment' will never end. I mean maybe if you're lucky and you manage to draft back to back hall of fame caliber receivers like Harrison and Reggie Wayne but no, by and large QBs will have to deal with roster churn their entire careers.

And it will be among their skill position players. Mahomes got 4 years with Hill and Kelce - more than many get. He's played his entire career with Kelce and VERY few QBs (any?) have ever gotten that level of consistent production from any weapon, TE or otherwise for a period as long as Mahomes has gotten.

It's the nature of being a QB. QBs have 10-15 year NFL careers. Some longer than that even. And their skill guys are going to have 3-5 years at/near their peaks for the most part. A quarterback is likely to see 3 and maybe 4 'eras' in their career and in each era they're going to have to develop a new normal with the weapons they have.

It's silly to sit here and act like asking Mahomes to work through a rebuilding of his weapons over a season or even 3 is some unreasonable ask. It's what happens in this league to everyone. Quarterbacks outlast their weapons.

this isn’t just some ordinary rebuild where a great qb is proven a fraud because he can’t win without elite weapons. These were deliberate choices we made to make this season unnecessarily frustrating for mahomes.

I mean don’t even get me started about deciding our best path was to turn mahomes into a game manager. But that aside, after our choices were made it was incompetent to put him through 14 weeks of a gazillion versions of WR rotations. This isn’t just about elevating bad talent or mahomes not finding ways to get bad guys the ball anyway. Mahomes has been plenty patient with the drops. I’ve never once seen him even a little mad at rashee for occasional drops. He is frustrated because of wr mental mistakes that have become a laughingstock of the league that turn slam dunks into costly catastrophic errors.

we are at a crossroad of 2 choices. We can either continue on with this science experiment and just tell him to ****ing deal with it. Or we can finally after 14 damn weeks give him something steady to work with the rest of the season. We finally looked like we had some rhythm if not for boneheaded mistakes. So stop leaning on boneheads for the rest of the season

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

If the only guys he can trust are a first ballot HOF WR'er and the greatest TE of all time, well **** we may in fact have an issue.

Is this a serious comment?

We aren’t talking about trying to get bad players open. We are talking about guys who consistently fail spectacularly at execution. Yeah, John Stockton is going to have trust issues passing to 4 guys who time after time after time fumble a simple pass or lobs up airballs on gimme shots.

The question is if he can manage decent talent. Not if he can overcome WRs making constant unforced errors. It is a trust issue because these guys cannot be trusted, it isn’t a question of if he can elevate below average talent

[FloridaMan88]

There has to be a happy medium between having experienced HOF-caliber WR’s… and entering a season with the likes of MVS/Toney/Skyy Less at the top of the WR depth chart.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

For sure.

But again, the "experiment" is because of his contract.

No it isn’t. The experiment is because we made poor personnel choices on a gamble that didn’t work. And then it was the inept way we decided to run our wr rotations throughout the year. A contract does not stop you from getting average players who can do very very bare minimum level of execution. We aren’t cheerleading juju because he’s an elite or even decent talent. We’re doing that to show the bar was set so low and our WRs aren’t even capable of even meeting that.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

this isn’t just some ordinary rebuild where a great qb is proven a fraud because he can’t win without elite weapons. These were deliberate choices we made to make this season unnecessarily frustrating for mahomes.

I mean don’t even get me started about deciding our best path was to turn mahomes into a game manager. But that aside, after our choices were made it was incompetent to put him through 14 weeks of a gazillion versions of WR rotations. This isn’t just about elevating bad talent or mahomes not finding ways to get bad guys the ball anyway. Mahomes has been plenty patient with the drops. I’ve never once seen him even a little mad at rashee for occasional drops. He is frustrated because of wr mental mistakes that have become a laughingstock of the league that turn slam dunks into costly catastrophic errors.

we are at a crossroad of 2 choices. We can either continue on with this science experiment and just tell him to ****ing deal with it. Or we can finally after 14 damn weeks give him something steady to work with the rest of the season. We finally looked like we had some rhythm if not for boneheaded mistakes. So stop leaning on boneheads for the rest of the season

The 'deliberate choices' were to lean into attempts to strengthen his protection and depend on improvements from a 1st round pick and a pair of 2nd round picks.

They're completely defensible and, in fact, wholly necessary given his contract.

It's no 'science experiment' - it's a reality born of the cap and the fact that some of those choices simply didn't work like they'd hoped they would. That's not making things unnecessarily difficult.

And yes, this is absolutely an ordinary rebuild. And to sit here and act like most rebuilds are as seamless as the OL rebuild in 2021 was is just the height of hubris. The overwhelming number of them have stops and starts. This one looked to be built upon a WR room that won a Super Bowl the year prior and saw a notable young talent added to it. There's nothing about what the Chiefs attempted that was inherently unfair or unreasonable of the Chiefs to ask of their generational quarterback.

Y'all just don't want to acknowledge that equally great QBs have gone through roster issues around them every bit as precarious as this one. There's nothing unprecedented about this.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

No it isn’t. The experiment is because we made poor personnel choices on a gamble that didn’t work. And then it was the inept way we decided to run our wr rotations throughout the year. A contract does not stop you from getting average players who can do very very bare minimum level of execution. We aren’t cheerleading juju because he’s an elite or even decent talent. We’re doing that to show the bar was set so low and our WRs aren’t even capable of even meeting that.

We have plenty of average WR's in the room. Hell, from a straight "tools/talent" perspective, you could say slightly better than average.

I'm coming around to thinking that Veach's approach was fine - but between James' injury and 19/11/24 ALL having a bad year at the same time - it's too much to overcome.

I mean, Richie James caught 60-ish balls from Daniel ****ing Jones. Are we really having this convo if he stays healthy all year - even IF 19/11/24 still have a bad year?

If Andy is to be believed, and they are gonna ramp up Richie's snaps, I think we see an offense that more closely resembles what we're used to over these last few weeks.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The 'deliberate choices' were to lean into attempts to strengthen his protection and depend on improvements from a 1st round pick and a pair of 2nd round picks.

They're completely defensible and, in fact, wholly necessary given his contract.

It's no 'science experiment' - it's a reality born of the cap and the fact that some of those choices simply didn't work like they'd hoped they would. That's not making things unnecessarily difficult.

And yes, this is absolutely an ordinary rebuild. And to sit here and act like most rebuilds are as seamless as the OL rebuild in 2021 was is just the height of hubris. The overwhelming number of them have stops and starts. This one looked to be built upon a WR room that won a Super Bowl the year prior and saw a notable young talent added to it. There's nothing about what the Chiefs attempted that was inherently unfair or unreasonable of the Chiefs to ask of their generational quarterback.

Y'all just don't want to acknowledge that equally great QBs have gone through roster issues around them every bit as precarious as this one. There's nothing unprecedented about this.

Really? Name them. I'm also talking about the WR rotation, which is unprecedented, along with how collectively bad this group has been.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The 'deliberate choices' were to lean into attempts to strengthen his protection and depend on improvements from a 1st round pick and a pair of 2nd round picks.

They're completely defensible and, in fact, wholly necessary given his contract.

It's no 'science experiment' - it's a reality born of the cap and the fact that some of those choices simply didn't work like they'd hoped they would. That's not making things unnecessarily difficult.

And yes, this is absolutely an ordinary rebuild. And to sit here and act like most rebuilds are as seamless as the OL rebuild in 2021 was is just the height of hubris. The overwhelming number of them have stops and starts. This one looked to be built upon a WR room that won a Super Bowl the year prior and saw a notable young talent added to it. There's nothing about what the Chiefs attempted that was inherently unfair or unreasonable of the Chiefs to ask of their generational quarterback.

Y'all just don't want to acknowledge that equally great QBs have gone through roster issues around them every bit as precarious as this one. There's nothing unprecedented about this.

The deliberate choice was to put mahomes through a billion WR rotations, even inside of the game

Sure we chose a certain path to deprioritize WRs and I disagree we had to. But that is not a good excuse for whiffing on the decisions we did make.

But that’s not even the main point I’m even trying to make. It’s too late to change any of the above. My argument is against yet again trying to mess around by trying to get guys like Toney going. At this point of the season the science experiment needs to end and we need to stop trying to make error prone players work. Just stick with the rotation that’ll make the least amount of mistakes and for now lean on your TEs and RBs more than usual

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The deliberate choice was to put mahomes through a billion WR rotations, even inside of the game

Sure we chose a certain path to deprioritize WRs and I disagree we had to. But that is not a good excuse for whiffing on the decisions we did make.

But that’s not even the main point I’m even trying to make. It’s too late to change any of the above. My argument is against yet again trying to mess around by trying to get guys like Toney going. At this point of the season the science experiment needs to end and we need to stop trying to make error prone players work. Just stick with the rotation that’ll make the least amount of mistakes and for now lean on your TEs and RBs more than usual

This I can agree with - how they chose to play the WR's certainly did not help things.

[DJ's left nut]

I've had dogs for about 20 years. In that span I've had 4 of 'em die on me at ripe old ages. And I replaced them. And presently I have one that's an unholy pain in the ass that I don't particularly care for but I'm pretty much stuck with until he finally eats the wrong sock and that up and kills him.

I didn't do anything stupid to choose that dog - he seemed like a wholly reasonable addition on the surface. But turns out he's a jackass. Shit happens. Someday he too will die and then I'll try to get a better one. Meanwhile my other dog is fantastic - love that dog to death...and he will also die someday. And probably get replaced by one that's not as good.

Fellas - this is just the reality of outliving your pets. You cycle through 'em. Sometimes they're fantastic and sometimes they suck. Maybe the answer is more senior dogs with clearly established behaviors that aren't around for very long. Or maybe it's to just keep trying with younger pups and hope you can mold them to your liking and have them for a decade or more. Both approaches have merit but my house only has so much space.

Mahomes is gonna outlive a whole bunch of dogs, guys. We just need to get used to that fact.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've had dogs for about 20 years. In that span I've had 4 of 'em die on me at ripe old ages. And I replaced them. And presently I have one that's an unholy pain in the ass that I don't particularly care for but I'm pretty much stuck with until he finally eats the wrong sock and that up and kills him.

I didn't do anything stupid to choose that dog - he seemed like a wholly reasonable addition on the surface. But turns out he's a jackass. Shit happens. Someday he too will die and then I'll try to get a better one. Meanwhile my other dog is fantastic - love that dog to death...and he will also die someday. And probably get replaced by one that's not as good.

Fellas - this is just the reality of outliving your pets. You cycle through 'em. Sometimes they're fantastic and sometimes they suck. Maybe the answer is more senior dogs with clearly established behaviors that aren't around for very long. Or maybe it's to just keep trying with younger pups and hope you can mold them to your liking and have them for a decade or more. Both approaches have merit but my house only has so much space.

Mahomes is gonna outlive a whole bunch of dogs, guys. We just need to get used to that fact.

Happy Holidays to you as well.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've had dogs for about 20 years. In that span I've had 4 of 'em die on me at ripe old ages. And I replaced them. And presently I have one that's an unholy pain in the ass that I don't particularly care for but I'm pretty much stuck with until he finally eats the wrong sock and that up and kills him.

I didn't do anything stupid to choose that dog - he seemed like a wholly reasonable addition on the surface. But turns out he's a jackass. Shit happens. Someday he too will die and then I'll try to get a better one. Meanwhile my other dog is fantastic - love that dog to death...and he will also die someday. And probably get replaced by one that's not as good.

Fellas - this is just the reality of outliving your pets. You cycle through 'em. Sometimes they're fantastic and sometimes they suck. Maybe the answer is more senior dogs with clearly established behaviors that aren't around for very long. Or maybe it's to just keep trying with younger pups and hope you can mold them to your liking and have them for a decade or more. Both approaches have merit but my house only has so much space.

Mahomes is gonna outlive a whole bunch of dogs, guys. We just need to get used to that fact.

Me to Veach:

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The deliberate choice was to put mahomes through a billion WR rotations, even inside of the game

Sure we chose a certain path to deprioritize WRs and I disagree we had to. But that is not a good excuse for whiffing on the decisions we did make.

But that’s not even the main point I’m even trying to make. It’s too late to change any of the above. My argument is against yet again trying to mess around by trying to get guys like Toney going. At this point of the season the science experiment needs to end and we need to stop trying to make error prone players work. Just stick with the rotation that’ll make the least amount of mistakes and for now lean on your TEs and RBs more than usual

I've bitched about that for weeks.

But don't you think we're doing EXACTLY what you're asking? Rice got 90% of the snaps last week. James is going to get moved up in the rotation and likely would've much sooner but/for injuries. Hardman was clearly going to be used (I think he was in the 30-40% range before he got hurt).

And Toney was someone they were TRYING to get back in a healthy groove as well. Then he stepped on his dick.

But you just complained about 'making Mahomes a game manager' and now you're saying 'stick with the rotation that makes the fewest mistakes' - you realize the former will necessarily follow the latter, correct?

That's something I think Andy is actually TRYING to avoid. As a last ditch effort he may go your route, but I don't think he's wanted to pull the chute just yet.

[Tribal Warfare]

Gronkowski's take on Kadarius Toney