****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by CadeMeister

Again, I ask this simple question...... Why is the Chiefs receiver coach, who has NO EXPERIENCE continuing to get a pass. He should have been fired weeks ago. He doesn't have a clue. Hell, they can't even line up onsides. It's time somebody called this clown from Blue Valley HS out. He is not a NFL coach by any stretch. Forget his family tree.....this dufus is a total liability. Conner Embree......blah blah blah. Hit the road Conner. You are totally worthless as a coach.

Andy isn't going to fire the kid. He'll move him to another position group or whatever, but he's not getting fired. That's just not Andy's MO.

[CadeMeister]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

That’s the thing for me. People want to scapegoat assistants but does anyone think for a second Andy Reid wouldn’t micromanage the shit out of the offense when it’s at a low point? Do we think bleymeier isn’t pitching in or Nagy isn’t spending extra time? If we want to put a lot of this on coaching then you gotta put a lot on andy, and i don’t think andy forgot how to coach them. We probably need more experienced WRs coaches but I don’t think it’s nearly the reason for the struggles some make it to be.

.........that's basic coaching. Position coaches work the tree alot in practice and simple things like "lining up onside. Position coaches work primary on fundamentals. The other Andy, Nagy, etc comes in team. My point is simple. Take it to the lowest common.......when you break the huddle what do you do ? Hell, the receivers can't even do that. Line _ucking up onside. Forget running the tree. They can't even line up. How many times did Toney line up offsides? At least 6 before they called one. I'm sorry but that's basic coaching from the position coach. It's reps, reps, reps. It you are sloppy in position drills, you are sloppy in games. And yes, Andy needs to take some responsibility and stop whining about the officials. Nagy, forget that moron, he is in the same class as Conner Embree. Both are obvious slow learners.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by JPH83

Where Chris is right earlier I think is that regression is probably the biggest issue. There's no obvious reason MVS should be this bad, Moore is even worse, Toney looks this much worse than in previous years (obviously the injury didn't help). That's why Nagy and Embree deserve the spotlight on them.

Outside of that it's harder to pin blame. I would say the WR committee approach has been a big mistake and hasn't helped Nagy and co. Maybe they wanted it, maybe it was Veach cobbling stuff together. But you have to think having that sort of rotation isn't great for chemistry and consistency. Good to cover the injury bug, but the idea seemed to be we'd try everyone out in different roles and see what worked. We still seem to have no idea other than what definitely doesn't work. Could be on Nagy, could be Veach, could be both.

On Veach it's hard to say. Looking at e.g. the draft investment it seems he hasn't prioritised as much in favour or building the D. But who knows who he tried to trade up for, if the rumours are true he's been after a WR and had no partners. There's also rumours he wanted Mazi Smith, so who knows. Perhaps they wanted WRs but just didn't like how they fell so went BPA. Fair enough.

On the other hand, going back to 2020, MEH is an egregious mistake. Not just because he's bad, but the resource allocation was terrible. There's no excuse, it was bad. 2021 was about protection so fine. 2022 and 2023, I know people love Karlaftis here but there's no way I prefer him even to that headcase Pickens, there's no way I prefer FAU over Rice in the first and Dell in the second etc. There's a LOT of ways we could have added more weapons to this team and haven't.

Make the argument Veach had a different plan and other GMs pushed it off course. But with the last 4 years of WR investment, I think it's hard to definitively say it's been a big priority for them.

I mean, I’m not as sold that Mvs was as good as some people remember. He was called out by rodgers and lafleur for his practice habits and maddening inconsistency. But even if I give you that, did Toney and Moore actually regress? Moore just flat out doesn’t have it and toney has such a tiny sample size of big moments versus a long history of being wildly inconsistent on top of not demonstrating that he’s more than just a gadget option.

main question is… who in this team goes to a “better coached” offense and does better there? Does anyone think skyy is even rosterable or Toney is more than a gadget guy? Maybe Mvs plays better off of other guys but does anyone think his route and catch consistency go away? I think we’ve got role guys to fit a scheme that’s been figured out and a bunch of guys punching way above the small role theyre best suited for.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

2019 is the ONLY season you can make the argument that NE had worse WRs than the Chiefs last year. They are about on par with this year's Chiefs WR-wise only because Jacobi Meyers was a rookie. They had a better RB room collectively and the best defense in football.

Every other NE SB-winning team had better WRs collectively, regardless if you include the TE or not.

That Patriots WR room might look similar to ours "on paper".

But that Patriots team got to play a Chiefs team in the AFC Championship game that had zero NFL safeties on the field and just spammed Gronk, Edelman, James White out of the backfield and Chris Hogan on KC and it was easy.

Then in the SB, you can count that as a BB/defensive win. He had a good read on McVay/Goff offense and held them to 3 points. The Patriots offense scored a whopping 13 points in a Super Bowl.

So sure, let's imagine a way we can hold the NFC Champions to a field goal and pretend vet WR's don't matter and you could conjure up a dream path for the 2023 Chiefs.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Come on, man. FF a couple of frames. That inside defender is already starting to change direction back and to the middle. In a half second there's nobody within 10 yards of Toney, and they're all moving away.



worst case scenario he's tackled around the goal line, but Toney with that much space might easily make a guy miss.



I'm not pissed about the read Mahomes made there, but if he HAD made a different one, there was a play to be made.



I agree with DJ, Rice was the read. I have zero issue with that.

People can talk all they want to about how few times Mahomes has been sacked, but I swear he is almost always ready to move out of the pocket, or at least relocate in the pocket, because he assumes that the tackles are going to get pushed back into him.

I have been killed all year for saying this, but our tackles are not good, and for we are paying Taylor, he just sucks.

Neither can run block at all, and they are garbage at picking up stunts and games. Thuney and Smith have looked worse than normal because they are being bookended by poor play.

On the pass to Kelce that everyone orgasmed over a couple of weeks ago, Mahomes steps up right into Smith because Smith got pushed back. So, everyone will remember the throw, but nothing else. There have been quite a few plays like that this year, where the tackles weren't good, but Mahomes made something happen anyway.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I mean, I’m not as sold that Mvs was as good as some people remember. He was called out by rodgers and lafleur for his practice habits and maddening inconsistency. But even if I give you that, did Toney and Moore actually regress? Moore just flat out doesn’t have it and toney has such a tiny sample size of big moments versus a long history of being wildly inconsistent on top of not demonstrating that he’s more than just a gadget option.

main question is… who in this team goes to a “better coached” offense and does better there? Does anyone think skyy is even rosterable or Toney is more than a gadget guy? Maybe Mvs plays better off of other guys but does anyone think his route and catch go away? I think we’ve got role guys to fit a scheme that’s been figureconsistencyd out and a bunch of guys punching way above the small role theyre best suited for.

MVS wasn't "good", but he was better, noticeably. Yes, I think Toney and Moore both look worse. Moore, maybe it's negligible, Toney has always been inconsistent but this year he's got a worse passing rating when targeted, worse yards per target, not to mention games like the Lions. Everything has trended down. Maybe it's the injury, maybe it's how he's been used.

To your point earlier that Reid needs some of the blame for this, maybe, my question this year is what changed? I'm not sure it's that the scheme is figured out, and the WR personnel haven't changed dramatically. Could be, but the more obvious answer is that Nagy and Embree are new in, and have done a terrible job of identifying what our WRs can and can't do within that scheme, and maintaining high standards. There's absolutely no reason Moore should be taking that many snaps on the outside, for example. Or people aren't lining up correctly.

I don't doubt teams have adjusted and that the scheme may not be working as well as in the past, with these WRs. I think that's largely because a) the players aren't good and we need more investment at WR than we've made and b) our coaches don't know what to do with them.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

People can talk all they want to about how few times Mahomes has been sacked, but I swear he is almost always ready to move out of the pocket, or at least relocate in the pocket, because he assumes that the tackles are going to get pushed back into him.

I have been killed all year for saying this, but our tackles are not good, and for we are paying Taylor, he just sucks.

Neither can run block at all, and they are garbage at picking up stunts and games. Thuney and Smith have looked worse than normal because they are being bookended by poor play.

On the pass to Kelce that everyone orgasmed over a couple of weeks ago, Mahomes steps up right into Smith because Smith got pushed back. So, everyone will remember the throw, but nothing else. There have been quite a few plays like that this year, where the tackles weren't good, but Mahomes made something happen anyway.

This is right, they're not. There are times Mahomes leaves the pocket early and it makes the OTs look bad, and there are many more times he's leaving because the OTs are being beat, or shoved back close to his lap. It's compunded by our IOL playing below last season's high standards.

I think Taylor may end up OK, albeit a huge overspend that we paid for thinking he'd be the LT and amidst a dearth of options. Both are terrible run blockers and that matters more than some would like to admit.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by JPH83

MVS wasn't "good", but he was better, noticeably. Yes, I think Toney and Moore both look worse. Moore, maybe it's negligible, Toney has always been inconsistent but this year he's got a worse passing rating when targeted, worse yards per target, not to mention games like the Lions. Everything has trended down. Maybe it's the injury, maybe it's how he's been used.

To your point earlier that Reid needs some of the blame for this, maybe, my question this year is what changed? I'm not sure it's that the scheme is figured out, and the WR personnel haven't changed dramatically. Could be, but the more obvious answer is that Nagy and Embree are new in, and have done a terrible job of identifying what our WRs can and can't do within that scheme, and maintaining high standards. There's absolutely no reason Moore should be taking that many snaps on the outside, for example. Or people aren't lining up correctly.

I don't doubt teams have adjusted and that the scheme may not be working as well as in the past, with these WRs. I think that's largely because a) the players aren't good and we need more investment at WR than we've made and b) our coaches don't know what to do with them.

I’m not thrilled with our assistant coaching. But I think it has more to do with the WRs not being able to do anything else than it does is not knowing what to do with them. These guys are all built for an offense that defenses want us to run. Toney is a catch and run guy who’s flopped when defenses took that away and he’s Had to function as more of a traditional WR. It feels like he should be better downfield but he like all other guys don’t seem to do well when the offense asks them to be smarter and make the right reads and adjustments - I think every one of our WRs lacks that. Skyy hasn’t been good, but the main reason he was brought in was to beat man coverage and get open quickly so he can catch and run. That’s what they thought we were getting. And Mvs is here purely to clear things out for the short stuff. Even Ritchie James was built for this. These guys just aren’t adaptable. That’s why it seems Watson is the one guy who can get consistently open. Because the guy has a bit more of an adaptable skill set. He just doesn’t have the talent to do it consistently.

And so it shouldn’t be a surprise that they get frustrated or discouraged when defenses take away the one thing they do well. Because these guys are largely one trick ponies. So we have a bunch of guys built for a scheme defenses know how to defend, and they lack adaptability to do anything differently

The one guy that has that flexibility is rashee and I agree we should be flexing him more. At the same time he’s a rookie and Reid is notorious for taking it slow and even he right now is best built for catch and run stuff too.

[O.city]

Get better talent. It's not the coaching or this or that.

They drafted sky moore and he's talentless and sucks. Rice has talent and is playing well.

Get better talent. Draft or sign better players.

It's the same thing on the DL. You want guys that can do it all. You can't have specific roles and expect teams to not think "hey, this guy just runs fast, we don't have to cover this or that".

[O.city]

"We need guys that can get open on their own with no scheming".

Well, ****, no shit. There are like 12 of those guys in the league and they make a **** load of money. We probably should have kept the one we had who was the one of the best of all time at doing that. But they "wanted the best 52 around Mahomes" and here we are. The problem with that is it requires you to...well not miss on draft picks and such. And it's a dumb ****ing crap shoot doing that and you draft midgets from small schools.

Go trade for and pay an elite WR. Be done with it.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

At least Mahomes can coach the WRs

Talked about this on the pod, but Mahomes having to fix Rice and Toney's pre-snap alignment was one of the plays that started to get him simmering. pic.twitter.com/lRFZPloon1

— Nate Tice (@Nate_Tice) December 13, 2023

This kinda shit is why we need to hire a competent WR coach.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by O.city

Get better talent. It's not the coaching or this or that.

They drafted sky moore and he's talentless and sucks. Rice has talent and is playing well.

Get better talent. Draft or sign better players.

It's the same thing on the DL. You want guys that can do it all. You can't have specific roles and expect teams to not think "hey, this guy just runs fast, we don't have to cover this or that".

Well, yeah, hard to disagree we need an injection of talent there. I still think there's a world where Toney is a good all-round WR. I dunno, maybe I'm expecting too much. Either way we need 2 guys in to make sure at least one hits.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Mecca

This kinda shit is why we need to hire a competent WR coach.

Reminder that our WR's lined up offsides in the Super Bowl last year when EB was here. We scored thankfully but they were lined up wrong

[TEX]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Reminder that our WR's lined up offsides in the Super Bowl last year when EB was here. We scored thankfully but they were lined up wrong

Were not offsides. Skyy Moore waa not in the right place on the play where he scored a TD.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by TEX

Were not offsides. Skyy Moore waa not in the right place on the play where he scored a TD.

Kelce lined up wrong and Toney actually was doing his job correctly on that play.