****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

They're all WORSE than they were down the stretch last year. To a man.

Rice isn't really 'developing', he's the same guy he was in college. He's got some of the playbook down.

Moore was a consensus second round player. I wasn't crazy about him as a prospect, but that was absolutely a consensus.

Toney was a first round pick. Down the stretch last season, he looked like it. He caught passes, he made highlight reel plays. Now he can't catch a cold, and can't even line up right.

MVS is a 50% catch rate guy career-long. That's on a very deep depth of target rate. He's ****ing horrible this season. He has no idea what he's doing and he can't catch much of anything.

No, it's not the same. If it was the same as last year-with ALL the same guys mind you, we'd have similar results. They did not drop everything last year at a historically bad rate. They actually made some plays. Same guys this year, can't do a ****ing thing right.

It's not the same. It's a remarkable regression.

What WR's as a defensive coordinator would you find threatening? Where are the matchup + players?

Who here besides Rice brings any useful skills for a modern NFL offense?

[Sassy Squatch]

Good coaching mitigates those deficiencies. Our coaching is bad enough to exacerbate it. That's a huge part of the issue. It's just a melting pot of shit thrown out onto the field on any given drive and they arent having what little strengths they do have played to.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Nagy and Embree ****ing suck at this. There is no other logical explanation. They do NOT have any of these guys ready to play.

There is absolutely no denying their culpability, the receiver room changed exactly ONE player... yet look like a completely different group

Nagy would rather be Pats buddy than his coach, and Embree should be making Big Macs... maybe having EB scream at everyone once in a while wasn't so bad after all

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The most logical explanation is that our receivers flat out aren't any good.

All this talk about regression and yet these WRs are exactly who they were when we picked up other teams trash.

Coaching needs to be better and maybe shaken up. but they also should be given the understanding that there's only so much you can do when the talent isn't there

No, they're not.

Everyone was excited about what Toney was doing down the stretch. This season he's been not just awful, but historically bad.

Skyy went exactly where every single draft source expected him to go. Plus route runner, great hands, hard worker. We've seen none of that.

MVS was a deep threat, 50% catch rate guy his whole career. This year he's ****ing terrible.

They've got a #1 and THREE #2's in that room. Nobody was wildly overdrafted. If you can't get even mediocre results out of that, it's the ****ing coaching.

*I'm still bullish on Rice, I just don't agree that he's 'developing'. I see the same things good and bad that were on his college tape. I think he's very talented, and don't include him in my 'historically bad' category. He's a raw but promising rookie.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

What WR's as a defensive coordinator would you find threatening? Where are the matchup + players?

Who here besides Rice brings any useful skills for a modern NFL offense?

Toney with the ball in his hands in space is elite tier. How about running some designed sweeps to stretch the defense horizontally.

Hardman as well. He's probably the best we have deep threat wise AND is excellent at finding creases. We didn't target him a single time deep or run a single sweep.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

We didn't target him a single time deep or run a single sweep.

False. Chiefs have done both with him.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Toney with the ball in his hands in space is elite tier. How about running some designed sweeps to stretch the defense horizontally.

Hardman as well. He's probably the best we have deep threat wise AND is excellent at finding creases. We didn't target him a single time deep or run a single sweep.

Hardman is an awesome gadget but Rashee Rice is now getting that work.

Toney did get the ball in space and as a RB.

With you on just benching MVS and letting Hardman run verticals. He is weak AF but throw the all in front of Mecole and he will at least run under it.

[smithandrew051]

Most likely it’s both coaching and talent.

To Meck’s point though, it is weird to see 3 guys (MVS, Moore, and Toney) all trend down in the same season.

Toney seemed like a guy who just needed to stay healthy before, but he’s mostly been healthy and it’s been really bad. The negative plays just can’t happen as often as they happen with him.

[jerryaldini]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

They're all WORSE than they were down the stretch last year. To a man.

Rice isn't really 'developing', he's the same guy he was in college. He's got some of the playbook down.

Moore was a consensus second round player. I wasn't crazy about him as a prospect, but that was absolutely a consensus.

Toney was a first round pick. Down the stretch last season, he looked like it. He caught passes, he made highlight reel plays. Now he can't catch a cold, and can't even line up right.

MVS is a 50% catch rate guy career-long. That's on a very deep depth of target rate. He's ****ing horrible this season. He has no idea what he's doing and he can't catch much of anything.

No, it's not the same. If it was the same as last year-with ALL the same guys mind you, we'd have similar results. They did not drop everything last year at a historically bad rate. They actually made some plays. Same guys this year, can't do a ****ing thing right.

It's not the same. It's a remarkable regression.

Hey Chris, I agree the regression is remarkable. No victory lap. I thought it was fair to want one more reliable option for Pat to mitigate the uncertainty. It was a risk/reward scenario where the chiefs were willing to bet on development and non-regression.

Wish things didn't get so personal here. We all want the same thing. Anyway, you're a great poster and a good dude.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

What I find interesting is that in the delight in taking a victory lap, you guys are actually under-representing just how bad this WR group has been this season. It's not just bad, it's historically bad. It's been like almost 30 years since any team has had this drop percentage.

'Totally predictable results'? Oh no. Not even.

This is an unprecedented regression of an entire position group. MVS is the same guy? Gods no. Not even close. Toney is the same? No, not even close. Moore? He's not even the same as last February. It's the WHOLE ROOM, all WORSE than in February.

You could make an argument that they wouldn't be great-that's reasonable. If they're even run of the mill lousy, this team is 10-3 or 11-2.

Do you have any faith that if they ran 'corn dog' that Toney catches the ball? I don't.
Do you have any faith that if Kelce lined up wrong in the slot that Toney would have the instincts to cover the OT, and not go in motion, and instead indicate to Mahomes that they should motion Moore instead? No, me neither. And that Moore would run that route and actually catch that ball for the TD in the biggest moment of the biggest game of his life? No, me neither.
Do you believe that MVS is capable right now of performing like he did in the AFCCG, when we absolutely had to have someone step up for 6-116 and a TD? Yeah, no. No way. He's broken.

THIS, this was not predictable.

It's entirely reasonable to expect your young players to improve with experience. It's entirely reasonable for a group of players to be better in year two of an Andy Reid offense than year one.

It's not normal to have an entire group regress to historically bad across the board.

This is on coaching, boys.

This is on poor attention to details and lack of accountability on the part of the offensive coordinator and the WR coach. There is no reason for the ENTIRE group to have become unplayable.

Talent? **** that argument. We can not like the Skyy Moore pick, but the fact is that he went about where every prognosticator thought he would, in the second round. Toney was a first rounder.

Rice is the only one that's shown anything, and he is what we should have expected-a talented but somewhat raw rookie.

MVS's drop rate is astronomical. Toney has no idea what he's doing. Skyy Moore can't run a route or get open to save his life.

The only guy that's roughly the same guy as last year is Watson, who's a #4 type guy that can occasionally play up.

Ritchie missed most of the season, but he was a first down machine with Danny 'brother can you spare a dime' in NY.

Toney missed camp, but damn, that was 14 weeks ago. What the hell?

No, this group should have been at LEAST mediocre.

Instead, it's historically bad.

So enjoy your victory lap. I'm sure it's satisfying.

If these guys were the same guys as last year, this team would be 10-3 or 11-2.

Nagy and Embree ****ing suck at this.

I'm not taking any kind of 'victory lap,' jfyi. I'm sick, almost literally ill, about the situation. Have been since the DEN loss. not that I expect you to believe me, but whatever.



Mostly i agree with your rant.


But a couple things: Rice actually has the worst drop rate on the team, 10.7%. Well, outside of James and Ross (14%/30%), but since they have 13 tgts between them for the season, I'm not counting them. Bitch about that if you like.

In fact, he's got nearly twice as many drops as the entire SF offense. But he's a rook, and we knew he had drop issues (and fumble issues) before the season started. But he's the best WR we have, so not much we can do about it right now. have to keep putting him out there, or the offense would probably collapse from the first drive.


Second, while i agree that coaching is a big part of the issue, at the end of the day these were supposed to be professional NFL WRs.

Ultimately, it's on the individual WRs to put in the work to be excellent, and they haven't done that. not one of these guys has taken it upon themselves to be great, to improve. To say to themselves, "let me be the one to become Pat's go-to guy." "Let me be the one to run all my routes correctly," "let me be the one to find a way to get open quickly and/or 'on time.,'" "let me be the one that spends hours after practice working on catching the ball," and so on.

In short, not one of these guys has shown the tiniest bit of accountability, or even embarrassment, concerning their level of play. According to MVS, "they don't know what we're talking about."

They've been doing what most of them were doing last season, which is the bare-ass minimum. Or worse.


And the lack of a true veteran WR in that room is also a big part of why these guys are shitting themselves. They have no one to look up to, no one to take notes from, no one to show them the dozens of little tricks that good vets always have in their bags.

Except for a rookie, or a $10 million joke of a decoy.


That's on Andy and Veach.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

What WR's as a defensive coordinator would you find threatening? Where are the matchup + players?

Who here besides Rice brings any useful skills for a modern NFL offense?

What were they last year? Was one legged Juju really all that scary? Because other than that, it's THE SAME CREW that was the #1 offense in football in EVERY MEANINGFUL STATISTIC.

We've got two guys that are 4.3 guys. We've got Toney, who's a 4.4 guy that's electric with the ball in his hands (but he'd have to actually catch the ball.) Hardman's been hurt, but is also dynamite with the ball. Of course, we don't really get them the ball much, because neither is capable of apparently running routes. Weird, because Toney looked pretty good at it down the stretch last year.

MVS has never been a plus player per se, but that speed and a 50% catch rate plays because you still have to keep a guy over the top. Now? Nah, he won't catch it anyway.

They're all dramatically regressing.

Rice isn't DEVELOPING, they're manufacturing screens and quick hitters for him. That's fine, but it's not development. I didn't expect more from him in year one. He's doing fine. Everyone else went from at least having useful skillsets to being absolute dog shit.

There's no reasonable explanation for that other than shit coaching.

[Justman59]

Reid said something about seeing where Justyn Ross is physically.

That's code for when it's game time Sunday, Patrick will still throw the ball to Skyy in critical downs or Clyde gets us two yards on 3rd and 8.

Give Justyn the ball!

And, for those who say a veteran can't learn the plays fast enough to help.

Well just look at Skyy and Clyde. How much longer do they need to learn?

It didn't take Christian long to get in the 49ers game or Baker to lead an LA team. But for some reason, to learn the Chiefs offense, you need to go to Patrick's house and play catch for the summer.

Then, on Sundays, drop the damn ball.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Hardman is an awesome gadget but Rashee Rice is now getting that work.

Toney did get the ball in space and as a RB.

With you on just benching MVS and letting Hardman run verticals. He is weak AF but throw the all in front of Mecole and he will at least run under it.

Well, and see, you bring up a good point there.

The USAGE is ****ing bizarre.

and that's coaching, too.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

What were they last year? Was one legged Juju really all that scary? Because other than that, it's THE SAME CREW that was the #1 offense in football in EVERY MEANINGFUL STATISTIC.

We've got two guys that are 4.3 guys. We've got Toney, who's a 4.4 guy that's electric with the ball in his hands (but he'd have to actually catch the ball.) Hardman's been hurt, but is also dynamite with the ball. Of course, we don't really get them the ball much, because neither is capable of apparently running routes. Weird, because Toney looked pretty good at it down the stretch last year.

MVS has never been a plus player per se, but that speed and a 50% catch rate plays because you still have to keep a guy over the top. Now? Nah, he won't catch it anyway.

They're all dramatically regressing.

Rice isn't DEVELOPING, they're manufacturing screens and quick hitters for him. That's fine, but it's not development. I didn't expect more from him in year one. He's doing fine. Everyone else went from at least having useful skillsets to being absolute dog shit.

There's no reasonable explanation for that other than shit coaching.

Having two players that Mahomes trusted was enough to drag the others across the finish line when you had a healthy Kelce.

You underestimated the value of having NFL WR's that run the routes the QB expects and get open.

Hopefully Veach doesn't ever make these mistakes again. You can't have a highly functional offense when the QB has ZERO WR's he can trust.

Rice is not that guy yet.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

False. Chiefs have done both with him.

Right. That shitty yeet on 3rd and 12 against the Chargers. So once this year.