****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It’s interesting to look at the evolution of offenses versus the ones that got stuck. I haven’t dug too deep into these other offenses but this is just a gut feel thing.

Dallas decided they’re just going to force it to CeeDee no matter what. Jacksonville is all about very quick decisions and spreading targets everywhere. Houston and Green Bay are pure **** it just Chuck it offenses. Stroud has some of the worst accuracy metrics but he’s just fearless. I would love to see the chiefs do what Jacksonville did last night which was just a beautifully designed offense, but Houston is a great example of not needing all world weapons… you just need guys who can go up and get any ball. It’s interesting you’re seeing these types of teams emerge in the second half of the season.

Buffalo and the chargers seem to have regressed for similar reasons. Two QBs who are too reliant on their primary options, though buffalo may be starting to evolve since the moved away from 12-13 personnel (not necessarily by choice) and into 3 wr sets.

So in terms of where the puck needs to go I think these teams give some clues to where we need to go.

Citing Jacksonville is a good point.

Without Chark, they have good weapons but not amazing ones. Ridley/Jones /Engram is a step above our best 3 (whatever that may be) but by no means world beaters.

And that offense was just run better. The timing was better. The spacing was better. Everything just looked better than what we've been doing all year.

And that's a really similar scheme to ours just...run better.

I don't think the difference in weapons is what created that broad a gulf. We simply aren't executing at a high level. And the rotation is weird. I just think there are some pretty hard questions that have to be asked of this offensive coaching staff right now, especially when you see teams doing 'our' thing but better than we do it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

People underestimate how good Mahomes was last year with that crew. HE elevated those guys.

Like the interception the other night. Everyone bitches about the WR's making route adjustments and what not due to coverage......well that's what that way. Sky did what he was supposed to do, Pat didn't.

I've been out since Sunday, I'm not sure if that was said here or not, but in the end, Pat is making the most money of any QB in the league and if he doesn't play like it, we're behind the 8 ball somewhere.

Originally Posted by Jerm

I understand what you’re saying but that strategy took us to 4 straight AFC Championships and what *should* have been 4 straight Super Bowls…we won 1 with it and should’ve gone back to back if not for Eric Fisher’s injury and Britt Reid being a dumb ****.

I don’t really know if you can find real balance in today’s NFL esp. with a QB on a huge deal…I think you kind of have to pick and lane and go with it.

The Eagles may be the exception but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that their one big splash move was a trade for a WR…

I think we all can agree that we need a good defense and we don’t need Justin Jefferson on offense. But we went all in on the best possible defense we can and we can dial that back a step or two. Still great but not all world. That’s the kind of balance I’d love to see us move to one day

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I mean technically he did catch a few more passes 'downfield' but it depends on your definition of same.

JuJu caught 18 passes more than 10 yards downfield all season (none more than 20). Rice so far has caught 7.

JuJu ran 528 routes last season; Rice has run 245. You go ahead and pro-rate Rice's routes run to JuJu's 528 and you're looking at 15 catches more than 10 yards downfield vs. JuJu's 18. There's no notable difference there. That's 3 balls over a full season - that's not going to move the needle at all.

Now when I say it depends on how you define 'downfield' - Rice has already caught 17 balls behind the LOS vs only 6 for Rashee. And it ain't the deep balls where that gap is closing. Where you're seeing the difference is that Rice isn't catching nearly as many balls from 0-9 yards as JuJu did (63 vs. 28). So it isn't really that JuJu caught more 'downfield' passes than Rice does unless you count short passes just past the LOS (0-9 yards) as being 'downfield'.

But here's why I say this is an opportunity rather than ability issue - again, if you double Rice's routes to get to where JuJu ended up, then suddenly he's almost identical in short catches past the LOS to where JuJu was. Moreover, Rice has a 120 passer rating when targeted on those short passes whereas JuJu had a 103.

Additionally, JuJu ran 254 'short' (0-9) routes for a total of 613 yards receiving - 2.41 yards/RR. Thus far Rice has run 95 'short' routes for 300 yards receiving -- 3.16 yards/RR. And for both guys, the bulk of their work is over the middle (though Rice over the middle has actually been a pretty significant upgrade - short middle has 210 yards for Rice over 58 routes run vs. 328 yards over 143 for JuJu).

I mean the short answer is simply that the only difference between what Rice and JuJu have done this year is volume just past the LOS and short of 10 yards. And that if that were to equalize at all, Rice would just strafe JuJu across the board.

We aren't missing JuJu. We simply aren't using Rice the way we should. He is proving to be extremely efficient in every area of the field (except the deep ball) and we're simply not utilizing him the way we could/should.

And it's been a trend. We're doing that with Toney as well. We're doing that with James. Meanwhile we're over-exposing Watson, MVS and Moore and asking them to do shit like slot fades that they simply aren't equipped for.

I really don't understand how we can continue to see some of these figures and say the offense is exclusively a product of poor WRs - we simply don't know because we aren't USING these guys in a way that gets their best work out of them. The problem is, and has been all year, the way we're rotating and utilizing our WRs. Until we put them in positions to succeed and capitalize on their strengths, we can't know if they truly suck. But I know with Rice and the numbers under the hood, you can see he's CLEARLY been criminally underutilized.

We aren't missing JuJu - we're simply not using Rice the way we should. He can bring all the things that JuJu brought but we continue to slow-play him.

Excellent breakdown.

I do NOT understand what they're doing or why-it seems they're not using people in logical ways at all.

it just doesn't make sense.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Jerm

I understand what you’re saying but that strategy took us to 4 straight AFC Championships and what *should* have been 4 straight Super Bowls…we won 1 with it and should’ve gone back to back if not for Eric Fisher’s injury and Britt Reid being a dumb ****.

I don’t really know if you can find real balance in today’s NFL esp. with a QB on a huge deal…I think you kind of have to pick and lane and go with it.

The Eagles may be the exception but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that their one big splash move was a trade for a WR…

If the QB you give a huge deal to, needs a loaded offense to do what you want here, he's not worth the huge deal and once you give it to him you won't win.

Period.

We have years and years of evidence stating that to be the case.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think we all can agree that we need a good defense and we don’t need Justin Jefferson on offense. But we went all in on the best possible defense we can and we can dial that back a step or two. Still great but not all world. That’s the kind of balance I’d love to see us move to one day

How did we "go all in on an all world defense" when they spent what they've spent on the OL?

They didn't draft a first round WR. That's literally it.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think we all can agree that we need a good defense and we don’t need Justin Jefferson on offense. But we went all in on the best possible defense we can and we can dial that back a step or two. Still great but not all world. That’s the kind of balance I’d love to see us move to one day

Well, you're probably going to get it next year, as there's a pretty good chance we have no Jones or Sneed.

And Veach tends to over-build any roster weakness, so I imagine you'll see a revamped WR room.

I don't want to hear any bitching when we lose games 35-31.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Citing Jacksonville is a good point.

Without Chark, they have good weapons but not amazing ones. Ridley/Jones /Engram is a step above our best 3 (whatever that may be) but by no means world beaters.

And that offense was just run better. The timing was better. The spacing was better. Everything just looked better than what we've been doing all year.

And that's a really similar scheme to ours just...run better.

I don't think the difference in weapons is what created that broad a gulf. We simply aren't executing at a high level. And the rotation is weird. I just think there are some pretty hard questions that have to be asked of this offensive coaching staff right now, especially when you see teams doing 'our' thing but better than we do it.

Here's the thing. This offensive staff has been pretty successful in the past in terms of this stuff. They've been ahead of alot of teams from a schematic standpoint.

Andy isn't without his faults, sure. But the guy clearly knows offensive football, yet keeps doing these things with this group.

Guys have blindspots for sure, but to me, it kinda speaks that they don't think the WR group is causing the issues as much as we as fans do.

[Pinchshot]

Originally Posted by O.city

People underestimate how good Mahomes was last year with that crew. HE elevated those guys.

Like the interception the other night. Everyone bitches about the WR's making route adjustments and what not due to coverage......well that's what that way. Sky did what he was supposed to do, Pat didn't.

I've been out since Sunday, I'm not sure if that was said here or not, but in the end, Pat is making the most money of any QB in the league and if he doesn't play like it, we're behind the 8 ball somewhere.

I agree. It's not all on the WR's. Pat needs to step up. If he doesn't like the pass, take off and run.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, you're probably going to get it next year, as there's a pretty good chance we have no Jones or Sneed.

And Veach tends to over-build any roster weakness, so I imagine you'll see a revamped WR room.

I don't want to hear any bitching when we lose games 35-31.

You won’t because we’ll be winning way more games 38-24…

[O.city]

I just don't think it's any coincidence that when Pat has played aggressive and been confident, we've had out best offensive outputs.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Jerm

You won’t because we’ll be winning way more games 38-24…

They better be prepared and good enough to put up 35 on good defenses in the playoffs. The regular season isn't gonna be the issue.

[xztop123]

Solution : bring Brad Childress back as passing game analyst

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, you're probably going to get it next year, as there's a pretty good chance we have no Jones or Sneed.

And Veach tends to over-build any roster weakness, so I imagine you'll see a revamped WR room.

I don't want to hear any bitching when we lose games 35-31.

There's a lot of truth there.

Subtle ain't really his thing. He sees a weakness and just bombards it.

So I suspect you're right - he'll go balls to the walls at WR next season.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by O.city

They better be prepared and good enough to put up 35 on good defenses in the playoffs. The regular season isn't gonna be the issue.

I think there’s enough proof that when you load up the offense, this very thing will happen…

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by O.city

How did we "go all in on an all world defense" when they spent what they've spent on the OL?

They didn't draft a first round WR. That's literally it.

What he means (what they ALL mean) is that we didn't sign a big name, high priced, over 30 (usually don't finish the season) WR, so therefore we decided to give Mahomes no weapons.