****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Buddy, I trust Veach. I trusted him at the beginning of the season when he thought this WR room was good enough. I trust him that he felt Hardman was a good addition. If he got Brown for a 2 I'd say it's an overpay but I'd also be pretty confident that Veach would feel he would be able to sign him to a reasonable extension.

I have trust in Veach. You keep citing his failure to draft WRs based on Moore and Hardman and explicitly do NOT trust him.

That's our primary difference. I believe these guys have earned the benefit of multiple doubts and I don't entirely judge and form my worldview based on small sample sizes.

I think there is a line between blind loyalty and blind hatred. We should trust in veach, but also what makes him great is he’s quick to accept mistakes and works relentlessly to address them. We are 6-1 but let’s be real, we’ve had a lot of really good schedule bounces along the way. I am not discounting our success. I’m just saying it’s given us leeway to work through mistakes.

I personally believe we inflated how good our WR room was and were blessed with rashee progressing quickly. And I think veach acknowledges that when Reid goes against his instincts and pushes rice out quickly and when you’re willing to trade for a guy he didn’t originally think would make your top 7. I would say we overestimated Toney and skyy, and the Ross experiment isn’t looking so hot. We will be fine but it’s because we’re adjusting out of our original plan.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother

Toney has been a disaster based off the offseason hype

His SB performance was well worth the 3rd and 6th rounders. Flipped the game and field late towards us getting SB II of the Mahomes era.

Originally Posted by dirk digler

The premise of this thread was accurately described in the OP. They have for the most part fixed the drop pass issue but as expected are a work in progress in the getting open phase. With Mecole back we will instantly improve with jet sweeps.

It is hard to tell though on the TV version of the game to see if they are actually not getting open alot, but there have been times WR's have been open and Mahomes either doesn't throw it or doesn't see it. He knows some of this on him as he mentioned MVS being wide open last Sunday and he took full blame on missing that.

The All-22 shows our WR's are getting open a lot. Mahomes sees them and just doesn't thrown the ball their way. Since he's the best ever, I'm assuming its a trust issue.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think there is a line between blind loyalty and blind hatred. We should trust in veach, but also what makes him great is he’s quick to accept mistakes and works relentlessly to address them. We are 6-1 but let’s be real, we’ve had a lot of really good schedule bounces along the way. I am not discounting our success. I’m just saying it’s given us leeway to work through mistakes.

I personally believe we inflated how good our WR room was and were blessed with rashee progressing quickly. And I think veach acknowledges that when Reid goes against his instincts and pushes rice out quickly and when you’re willing to trade for a guy he didn’t originally think would make your top 7. I would say we overestimated Toney and skyy, and the Ross experiment isn’t looking so hot. We will be fine but it’s because we’re adjusting out of our original plan.

Otherwise known as "it'll get better as the year goes on and they develop" also known as what everyone was saying to you in August.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

We will be fine but it’s because we’re adjusting out of our original plan.

Sure, but that's the point: we always had the ability to do that. And it's not as if we made any huge wholesale changes. Some very minor tweaks and we already seem like we're in a much better place than we were when this thread was started.

So, I'd say those people who just urged patience from the start have by and large seen some validation. Is it complete? Absolutely not. They're still working through stuff and this team very well might not win the SB. In fact, they probably won't.

For me it's always been about the process that Veach undertook. Did it make sense what he was trying to accomplish while balancing resource constraints? And I've always felt that even if this WR corps didn't work this year, I knew what he was attempting to do, and I could absolutely see the logic in it.

6-1 with this team playing well in all three phases feels amazing.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by O.city

No team is trading a 2nd round pick for half a season rental on a guy that isn't an elite player. It's not even worth discussing.

But the comp pick!

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

Otherwise known as "it'll get better as the year goes on and they develop" also known as what everyone was saying to you in August.

My suggestion all off-season was for a bandaid. I have zero regrets about that. But we ended up 6-1 and we should be in a good enough spot second half. It worked out but it doesn’t mean I was wrong.

I think you’re significantly understating how much faith was put into Toney as Wr1 and skyy to be able to clear the supposedly very low bar juju left behind. most people didn’t expect rashee to contribute much at all this season given Reid’s track record of playing rookies. So most people were expecting the initial WR rotation to carry us for most of the season. And that calculation was off. So we adjusted and I suspect we will continue to do so.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Sure, but that's the point: we always had the ability to do that. And it's not as if we made any huge wholesale changes. Some very minor tweaks and we already seem like we're in a much better place than we were when this thread was started.

So, I'd say those people who just urged patience from the start have by and large seen some validation. Is it complete? Absolutely not. They're still working through stuff and this team very well might not win the SB. In fact, they probably won't.

For me it's always been about the process that Veach undertook. Did it make sense what he was trying to accomplish while balancing resource constraints? And I've always felt that even if this WR corps didn't work this year, I knew what he was attempting to do, and I could absolutely see the logic in it.

6-1 with this team playing well in all three phases feels amazing.

Yes But the bandaid crowd has validation too. I know people are dancing around our initial wr unit not looking great but I just don’t think they have been. Hence why we’re making these adjustments. I think we learned not to take either kelce or mahomes for granted and I’m thrilled that we’ve learned we can’t just throw anyone out there and try to make it work. I think wr was a position very much taken for granted and it isn’t anymore, even for people who’d prefer to use the draft instead of spending money.

It’s a philosophical difference but $10m to me isn’t crippling. And we could have taken a small hit today and offset it by getting rid of Mvs next year.

[O.city]

They are using a 2nd round rookie and just send a 2025 pick for a vet that's gonna cost them like a million bucks and you think this is validating the side that wanted to go spend on Theilan and or Hopkins?

Nah man. Just take the L here.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think we learned not to take either kelce or mahomes for granted.

Have you entered another dimension?

[O.city]

They're paying a guy 10 million dollars to at the WR spot.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Yes But the bandaid crowd has validation too. I know people are dancing around our initial wr unit not looking great but I just don’t think they have been. Hence why we’re making these adjustments. I think we learned not to take either kelce or mahomes for granted and I’m thrilled that we’ve learned we can’t just throw anyone out there and try to make it work. I think wr was a position very much taken for granted and it isn’t anymore, even for people who’d prefer to use the draft instead of spending money.

It’s a philosophical difference but $10m to me isn’t crippling. Hell, we could’ve offset thielen/DHop with Watson and hardman. Anyone think thielen and rice and Watson/hardman with Toney and skyy is worse than what we have? Water under the tbridge because we’ll come out okay. But there is validation on both sides of the aisle.

I feel like nothing was exactly "learned" in that regard... the Chiefs are obviously learning who is progressing and isn’t and all of that in terms of player development, but everything else was known from the beginning.

The Chiefs knew it sucks to lose a HoF WR and they'd have to make more decisions this offseason and balance this year's success with long term success, etc. They (and many of us) knew the product on the field would evolve and they would use the first couple months to evaluate and make adjustments where needed, and may not look great in week 1 or even week 8. They (and hopefully everyone) knows you can't just throw out anyone, but also had to work within a certain set of limitations, along with the feedback of the greatest QB we've ever seen and so forth.

Nobody here saying "we'll be fine" was ever completely lacking any of that knowledge... we know all of that, which is exactly why we haven't been worried about it.

[RunKC]

WR's are just not vital to Andy's scheme here. It's always been that way. Sure there's outliers like TO and Tyreek, but it's mostly been this way for Andy in over 2 decades of coaching. It's kinda like chess to me.

The King is Mahomes. Queen is Kelce. Rooks are the OL (specifically tackles) and bishops the RB's.

WR's aren't exactly pawns, but they're knights. Still important and valuable but not vital by any means. Not sure what other analogy to use here bc Andy's history proves the WR theory even when he didn't have Kelce in Philly all those years.

Thank you coming to my Ted Talk

[BleedingRed]

I think Ross is going to see alot of action this weekend. Because Andy is going to go with the "Give me a reason to keep you" and well... its the

[O.city]

I think you're looking at that wrong.

It's not that they aren't vital, it's that he doesn't go out of his way to overspend or overpay and moreso he uses what he has.

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by RunKC

WR's are just not vital to Andy's scheme here. It's always been that way. Sure there's outliers like TO and Tyreek, but it's mostly been this way for Andy in over 2 decades of coaching. It's kinda like chess to me.

The King is Mahomes. Queen is Kelce. Rooks are the OL (specifically tackles) and bishops the RB's.

WR's aren't exactly pawns, but they're knights. Still important and valuable but not vital by any means. Not sure what other analogy to use here bc Andy's history proves the WR theory even when he didn't have Kelce in Philly all those years.

Thank you coming to my Ted Talk

Huh?

Andy's system is very DEPENDENT on WR's what are you talking about?

Brent Celek (spelling?) was his TE in Philly, and he always had GREAT WR's