***Official 2020 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

2020 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

1. Kolten Wong (L) - 2B
2. Tommy Edman (S) - 3B
3. Paul Goldschmidt (R) - 1B
4. Paul DeJong (R) - SS
5. Matt Carpenter (L) - DH
6. Yadier Molina (R) - C
7. Dexter Fowler (S) - RF
8. Tyler O'Neill (R) - LF
9. Harrison Bader (R) - CF

RHP Jack Flaherty

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year.....
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Other than 2 games against the Indians they really havent played any truly good teams.

There's just really not been a legitimate option to fix the leadoff spot. The teams realistic openings were CF and 2B. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single leadoff type hitter that was readily available for trade at either position.

I thought maybe a trade with the Phillies when they were down on Cesar Hernandez could have worked and it wouldn't have cost much to get him, but he's nothing to write home about. He was simply a guy that got on base, had a little speed, and didn't strike out at the typical Cubs rate.

Had a few discussions on Cubs boards about who they could look at for leadoff this last offseason and looking around at the league I could really only think of taking a shot on Manuel Margot who ultimately got traded to the Rays, but even he was more of a fingers crossed that he takes a few more walks and gets on base more.

The only big splash I could see would have been a trade with the Braves with Bryant or Baez going to Atlanta and one of their CF prospects coming back plus a couple more pieces.

The Braves CF prospects don't project to be plus hitters that I can recall. Pache is more than likely going to be very similar to the guy he's going to replace in Inciarte.

I've always felt like Mallex Smith would thrive in the right home. His 2018 season was a really nice baseline for a modern leadoff hitter. You give me an OBP above .360 w/ some doubles thump and the ability to steal 30+ bases, I'll give you a heck of a lot of rope to hang yourself with.

I don't feel like there are as few of those kinds of guys as we are led to believe, I just don't feel like they're valued at all. Smith's been traded a half-dozen times and for marginal returns each time. And he's always had plus speed, a solid approach and good bat control.

But nobody seems to care that much because he's not going to hit 10 bombs.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Braves CF prospects don't project to be plus hitters that I can recall. Pache is more than likely going to be very similar to the guy he's going to replace in Inciarte.

Drew Waters has plus power and speed grades, iirc.

I would have targeted him over Pache because it doesn't feel like you are getting that much more with Pache who grades higher, 60 FV vs 55.

Thought if you trade Bryant or Baez to the Braves you could have easily got Waters and either Riley/Swanson back in the deal to replace the guy you gave up and a reliever.

[DJ's left nut]

Is that the 5th time Carlson has been up with the bases loaded this week? And he fails to get the run in. Again.

Kid is getting eviscerated. These pitchers are just toying with him and he’s completely out of sorts.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Is that the 5th time Carlson has been up with the bases loaded this week? And he fails to get the run in. Again.

Kid is getting eviscerated. These pitchers are just toying with him and he’s completely out of sorts.

No days off either. I get it’s a weird year. Games don’t seem to really count. Why not give him a day off though?

I’m assuming there’s a lesson learned going on here. Playing the long game. Maybe he’s had success at every level he’s been at. Labeled best prospect since Pujols. Show him it’s different here? Adjustments need to be made all the time?
Must be some kind Jedi mind trick to get him to take quality AB’s by the start of next year when hopefully some kind of normalcy returns.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

No days off either. I get it’s a weird year. Games don’t seem to really count. Why not give him a day off though?

I’m assuming there’s a lesson learned going on here. Playing the long game. Maybe he’s had success at every level he’s been at. Labeled best prospect since Pujols. Show him it’s different here? Adjustments need to be made all the time?
Must be some kind Jedi mind trick to get him to take quality AB’s by the start of next year when hopefully some kind of normalcy returns.

The hell of it was that he ran into a perfect storm of suck.

The league adjusted to him FAST. He was getting pitches to hit early and it took maybe 3 games for teams to stop doing that.

And the worst part of it was that during those first few games when he was getting pitches to hit, he was hitting into awful luck. He was roping lasers right at guys and had an obvious bomb killed by the wind.

Most young hitters come up, get 15-20 games of 'rookie' pitching where they get to feast on fastballs, pitchers adjust and they have a tough little adjustment period where they have to come up with a new plan. The good news is in that first 15-20 games they padded their stats so they look at the scoreboard and don't get down on themselves because things look fine on their statline.

But Carlson got no padding in his 'rookie' period and his rookie period was SUPER short. So his line looks like ass, pitchers are pitching to him like he's an 8 year vet and things are just wearing on him.

I'm really not sure what you can do about it because you don't have an Albert Pujols in the lineup to put him in front of and ensure he gets fastballs like the old days. There's just not a truly scary bat here that can take pressure of him and get him pitches to hit.

When all you have to do once you get past him is pick on Fowler, Weiters, Carpenter, Bader, etc.... you realize that there's just no reason to let him beat you. The guys behind him aren't gonna if you pitch him tough and lose him.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The hell of it was that he ran into a perfect storm of suck.

The league adjusted to him FAST. He was getting pitches to hit early and it took maybe 3 games for teams to stop doing that.

And the worst part of it was that during those first few games when he was getting pitches to hit, he was hitting into awful luck. He was roping lasers right at guys and had an obvious bomb killed by the wind.

Most young hitters come up, get 15-20 games of 'rookie' pitching where they get to feast on fastballs, pitchers adjust and they have a tough little adjustment period where they have to come up with a new plan. The good news is in that first 15-20 games they padded their stats so they look at the scoreboard and don't get down on themselves because things look fine on their statline.

But Carlson got no padding in his 'rookie' period and his rookie period was SUPER short. So his line looks like ass, pitchers are pitching to him like he's an 8 year vet and things are just wearing on him.

I'm really not sure what you can do about it because you don't have an Albert Pujols in the lineup to put him in front of and ensure he gets fastballs like the old days. There's just not a truly scary bat here that can take pressure of him and get him pitches to hit.

When all you have to do once you get past him is pick on Fowler, Weiters, Carpenter, Bader, etc.... you realize that there's just no reason to let him beat you. The guys behind him aren't gonna if you pitch him tough and lose him.

Move him to the 2 hole for a few games and see what happens I guess. He has the speed to hit 2nd and some pop.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Move him to the 2 hole for a few games and see what happens I guess. He has the speed to hit 2nd and some pop.

I watched him track down a ball in the gap and run the bases a couple of times full speed. He looked pretty fast for a 6'3" guy.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I watched him track down a ball in the gap and run the bases a couple of times full speed. He looked pretty fast for a 6'3" guy.

I still believe he's a RFer.

Yeah, he can probably play CF for a few years, but he's simply 'big guy' athletic rather than strictly athletic.

It's not as bad as Tavares, who people said could play CF in the minors and when he got to the show he was positively cringeworthy even in the corners. But all the "CF OTF" truthers aren't being completely honest with themselves here either.

You put him in CF and it's only because you have two other bad defensive OFers who's bats demand they be in the lineup. I can't imagine a world where he's much more than average out there over any appreciable timeline.

[Titty Meat]

Anyone see Molinas tweet? What a piece of shit

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

Anyone see Molinas tweet? What a piece of shit

I mean technically the dude's already had it so there's really no harm, no foul here.

But when your squad is the face of COVID outbreaks in professional sports, maybe tap the brakes a little there, sporto.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

Anyone see Molinas tweet? What a piece of shit

For those who havent seen it. FTR its Instagram. WTF was he thinking? Your the damn sad sack example of players not following covid rules and costing you games. Maybe its a culture thing?

[Chief Roundup]

Anyone know when that pic was taken?
He looks awfully small in that pic compared to how he looks in a lot of other recent pictures and of course at bat during the games.

[Jewish Rabbi]

It’s a recent pic. He went on to explain in a different post that it’s family members, his house keeper, and a Cardinals staffer. People he comes into contact with daily anyway.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

He looks awfully small in that pic compared to how he looks in a lot of other recent pictures and of course at bat during the games.

I thought that too. Maybe those dudes are all big but Yadi never has looked like a small guy on the field.

[DJ's left nut]

Yadi has gotten scrawnier for the last 2-3 years.

I can't agree with you at all - he looks TINY on the field these days. Hardly any muscle mass at all.

Pudgy Yadi hasn't been a thing for a few years now.