Is it the line, or the running back?

[Chris Meck]

I just thought since it comes up in every single thread, maybe we could talk about in one continuous conversation.

I think we'd all be in agreement that we need to be more consistent in the running game.

Some of us think the problem is lack of a talented enough RB to be a 'feature back'.

Some of us think that the biggest problem is that our interior offensive line is lousy, and when coupled with losing Fisher for half a season, was the biggest reason we were unable to run the ball.

Personally, I fall mostly in the second camp. I have no illusions that Damien Williams is a top 5 back; but I think with decent line play (such as we got once Fisher was back in the flow and Wisniewski took over LG) he can be effective when healthy. The problem is, he's never made a full season healthy; so I agree with taking a mid-round RB to provide competition and hopefully upgrade.

I think the interior offensive line is #2 on my priority list to upgrade, just after CB where we are dangerously thin. I don't believe that any RB upgrade will pay dividends without upgrading from OG-OG.

It's a chicken-and-the-egg argument really, but where do you come down?

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Dude it’s not like Rankin played a ton of games for us. And if you’ll notice....our running game was better when Wiz was starting.....which would mean that offensive line play is more important.

Old ass McCoy was running just fine for us in the first half of the season (minus fumbles).

10 carries-8.1 avg
8 carries-6.8 avg
11 carries-5.1 avg
8 carries-5.5 avg
12 carries-5.3 avg
9 carries-4.4 avg

I still think our struggles were McCoy fumbling and Damien coming off a nagging injury.

Throw the Colts game out too. No Tyreek, no Sammy, Pat’s ankle was ****ed and he couldn’t move. Of course they stopped the run. We were completely one dimensional.

[RealSNR]

I agree that Damien Williams isn't a feature back, but he does a lot of nifty things, and as long as he's supported by a strong committee of other RBs, I think the Chiefs can do pretty well with him as the starter, or at least the one who gets the most carries.

The problem I see right now is I think a few people are getting ahead of themselves a bit. Even if we draft a dude who's really good, Andy might not play him all that much, at least initially. The Chiefs had every intention of making Spencer Ware the opening day starter in 2017, not Kareem Hunt. Ware knew the offense, the protections, and he was probably a better asset to what Andy wanted to accomplish through the pass. You saw the same thing this past season. Not saying Darwin Thompson is a world beater by any means, but Andy didn't give him any kind of snaps on offense until weeks 14 and beyond, and even then you could hardly say he was getting work as a the 2nd or 3rd guy in a true RBBC.

If we draft Dobbins with our 1st rounder or somebody like that, we may not see what people are dreaming of until much later in the season or possibly even the following year.

While yes, getting a Kareem Hunt clone would make us truly unbeatable, throwing high draft capital at it (a 1st, 2nd, 3rd rounder) doesn't guarantee that will happen. If we pulled the trigger on OL with one of those picks, however, I think we WOULD be more likely to see legit gains and improvement, because we're no longer stuck building the team one particular way with our draft hopes targeting one particular position at such a ridiculous level.

[Warrior5]

OL.

[O.city]

I want Mahomes to pass more so whatever helps that I’m all about

[ChiefBlueCFC]

I feel the primary concern of any running game falls onto the offensive line and also the scheme. But, I'd say the line is the most responsible. Obviously, the RB matters too, but if the line can't block guys, it doesn't matter who the RB is (minus Barry Sanders).

Look at SF this year and Mike Shanahan's donkey teams. They plugged in rando after rando and they produced because the line and the scheme worked well.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

I think the style of RB that Damien Williams is, fits this offense really well. When he is healthy, he is a good receiving back and is elusive in space. He isn't a power guy by any means, but we saw how productive Williams was the latter part of the season and the postseason. He put some damn good defenders on skates in the super bowl.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

LB is our second biggest need. Right now we have Ben Niemann starting if the season started today

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by O.city

I want Mahomes to pass more so whatever helps that I’m all about

LOL.

Honestly maybe the answer is go find the best FB as a UDFA and run a bunch of snaps with 2 FB in the backfield. Instead of having 2 TE for max protect, you have 2 FB.

Joking aside, our run game is the least important as it’s been in the history of the ****ing franchise. No longer are we relying on a run game to win anything. To pile on what Mecca said, a D without giant exploitable holes is far more likely to lead to more wins than a solid run game. (**** you Bob Sutton)

I don’t know what to do with my hands.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC

I think the style of RB that Damien Williams is, fits this offense really well. When he is healthy, he is a good receiving back and is elusive in space. He isn't a power guy by any means, but we saw how productive Williams was the latter part of the season and the postseason. He put some damn good defenders on skates in the super bowl.

He was also asked to move the line in multiple tough short yardage situations against the Titans stout DL and moved the chains each time.

[Shoes]

Couple of thoughts:

-Interior OL I would look to improve. Never a bad idea to invest in protecting the most valuable player in the NFL, let alone trying to improve the running game.

-I'm comfortable with Damien Williams as "the guy". He might not be what some consider a feature back but he's proven that for stretches he can carry the load, and for whatever reason he seems to bring his best in the playoffs. His skill set matches up well with what Andy Reid wants to do at the running back position as well.

-Need to improve the RB quality behind Williams. Hopefully Thompson takes another step forward but they need someone other than LeSean McCoy who they actually have faith in. Just nature of the position that you're going to have injuries or a guy miss some time.

[Ubeja Vontell]

Unless a RB is Barry Sanders/Gale Sayers it is always that o line...always.

21 Quick.....was our big run play in HS, i took the ball hit the one hole, if no hole I go nowhere (no Barry/Gale) if a hole I got 3/4 yards before I needed to start running.

Always that o line.

The Denver Broncos had a slew of 1000 yard RB's back in the day, none of them anything special , yep.....o line.

[BWillie]

Lack of RB is the biggest issue. Williams was very good towards the end of the year, but I'm afraid he's not an every down back and not too consistent. It would be nice to upgrade there, because we've seen how good this offense is with an elite RB like Hunt. We averaged 37ppg with Kareem Hunt.

[Megatron96]

OL. If we're going to rely on average/below-average RBs to run the ball in this offense, we need a good OL. The only RB that consistently ran above league average for us through the first 8 games or so was Shady, who was an elite RB. Damien/Darrel behind the same exact line averaged less than 2 yds/carry.

It wasn't until the entire starting OL got healthy with Wiz inserted at LG and had played 3-4 games together that our run game became at least league average.

And I like Damien; the moment he ran in that last TD to seal the SB he became my favorite Chiefs RB all-time. But let's be honest; while he has really good speed, and sometimes can find a crease in the IOL to exploit, he doesn't have great vision, and his change of direction isn't that great. He also sometimes lacks situational awareness.

But CP doesn't want a really good RB; CP wants a JAG so w don't have to pay him anything. So we need a really good OL so a JAG can run effectively behind them.

So spend some picks on OLs and hopefully find some decent OLs for cheap in FA.

And stop saying stupid things about how Damien is as good as Kareem. Kareem was significantly better, and I'm not talking about fumbles. If you can't watch the two play and know that, you're a moron.

[Shaid]

OL is more important that RB but a great RB makes a big difference in overcoming deficiencies.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

And stop saying stupid things about how Damien is as good as Kareem. Kareem was significantly better, and I'm not talking about fumbles. If you can't watch the two play and know that, you're a moron.

Yeah, I keep hearing this - but I’ve yet to see it demonstrated statistically other than “the eye test” or the “37 ppg” number that’s thrown out. Kareem had home run potential catching passes (a lot of secondaries just were not up to bring him down) - but to say Kareem was far better for the offense doesn’t hold water to me. The only analysis comparing the two I’ve seen on this came from Baldy’s breakdowns who pretty much concluded that Chiefs fans were overestimating Kareem through nostalgia. I think that nostalgia may be going on around these parts a bit too.

I’m not discounting Kareem either, trust me. I’m a Royals fan, a team who made back to back trips to the WS despite a lot of “analytics people” chalking it up to luck. It’s possible Kareem’s contributions went way further than Damien’s - I just have yet to see that reflected statistically or in results from the team.