The logic of drafting OT in the 1st.

[Direckshun]

What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach.

I doubt I even need to run down the list but:

2020: CEH --> Williams
2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins
2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston
2017: Mahomes --> Smith

Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring.

The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options:

• Niang vs. the rookie for starting RT
• if the rookie wins, Niang can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
• if Niang wins, the rookie can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
• the Chiefs love Fisher but if both Niang and the rookie excel, maybe they cut bait
• if only one of them excel, the Chiefs can extend Fisher

It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have.

I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes.

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by O.city

Wouldn't you say drafting a RB in the first is poor value as well?

I would say yes it was poor value, and its one of the reasons I am not a Veach cheerleader yet. I like CEH, he's a good player but I don't think he would be any more productive for the Chiefs than any of the other RBs taken last year in the 2nd or hell Antonio Gibson went in the 3rd, so did Zack Moss. They all would have been fine in this offense.

I can see the appreciation for Veach in that he did enough to get the in position to win the Superbowl, but he's made several bad moves as well.

If he can navigate the next year or 2 to secure the dynasty without having to blow it up and reset for a year plus, he will go up in my estimation.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chargem

I would say yes it was poor value, and its one of the reasons I am not a Veach cheerleader yet. I like CEH, he's a good player but I don't think he would be any more productive for the Chiefs than any of the other RBs taken last year in the 2nd or hell Antonio Gibson went in the 3rd, so did Zack Moss. They all would have been fine in this offense.

I can see the appreciation for Veach in that he did enough to get the in position to win the Superbowl, but he's made several bad moves as well.

If he can navigate the next year or 2 to secure the dynasty without having to blow it up and reset for a year plus, he will go up in my estimation.

Dude, take CEH out of the rookie class and he still knocked it out of the park. Danna, Wharton, Sneed - this past offseason was a home run.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's not just some teams, it's most if not all teams. The Chiefs won a SB with an UDFA RB leading the way last year.

The Rams with Gurley couldn't get rid of him fast enough when he started breaking down.

The difference between a good and great running back is so small, it's not worth the investment.

The Rams also spent their first pick last year (though a 2nd) to replace Gurley after using a 3rd in 2018 on Henderson.

I don’t think they’re the best example against drafting a RB high.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Chargem

I would say yes it was poor value, and its one of the reasons I am not a Veach cheerleader yet. I like CEH, he's a good player but I don't think he would be any more productive for the Chiefs than any of the other RBs taken last year in the 2nd or hell Antonio Gibson went in the 3rd, so did Zack Moss. They all would have been fine in this offense.

I can see the appreciation for Veach in that he did enough to get the in position to win the Superbowl, but he's made several bad moves as well.

If he can navigate the next year or 2 to secure the dynasty without having to blow it up and reset for a year plus, he will go up in my estimation.

Holy shit what a ****ing moron you are.

Veach is the best GM in the NFL and just had one of the best drafts you could possibly hope for picking at the bottom of every round. Every GM has misses. Nobody is perfect. Get a ****ing clue dude.

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Dude, take CEH out of the rookie class and he still knocked it out of the park. Danna, Wharton, Sneed - this past offseason was a home run.

I agree this last off season was excellent. You didn't even mention Gay and I think he will also be really good next year, I liked what I saw. My statement was based on his whole 3 year body of work across draft, free agency and trade.

Originally Posted by staylor26

Holy shit what a ****ing moron you are.

Veach is the best GM in the NFL and just had one of the best drafts you could possibly hope for picking at the bottom of every round. Every GM has misses. Nobody is perfect. Get a ****ing clue dude.

The 2020 draft was excellent. The 2018 draft was garbage, the 2019 draft was good. I'm just not as willing to put his dick in my mouth based on one excellent draft. Good for you if you are.

My statement wasn't even specifically just focused on the draft either.

[Chris Meck]

I really like Jalen Mayfield. I think he would be an excellent addition to the World Champion Kansas City Chiefs, my favorite football team.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's not just some teams, it's most if not all teams. The Chiefs won a SB with an UDFA RB leading the way last year.

The Rams with Gurley couldn't get rid of him fast enough when he started breaking down.

The difference between a good and great running back is so small, it's not worth the investment.

So, you think the difference between Derrick Henry and Darwin Award Thompson is "so small"?

If so, you and I evaluate talent much differently.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's not just some teams, it's most if not all teams. The Chiefs won a SB with an UDFA RB leading the way last year.

The Rams with Gurley couldn't get rid of him fast enough when he started breaking down.

Gurley was drafted in 2015 and led the Rams to the 2018 Super Bowl. I'd say that was worth a 1st round pick.

He also had pretty nice numbers:

2015: 1,294 yards from scrimmage, 10 TD's
2016: 1,212 yards from scrimmage, 6 TD's
2017: 2,093 yards from scrimmage, 19 TD's
2018: 1,831 yards from scrimmage, 21 TD's
2019: 1,064 yards from scrimmage, 14 TD's.

The guy also had well more than 310 touches per season from 2016-2018, so it's not surprising that the wheels fell off in 2020. It's also difficult to overstate that he had 70 Touchdowns in 5 years with the Rams.

Damien Williams has been in the league since 2014 and has a grand total of 22 TD's.

But sure, very little difference between the two running backs.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

It absolutely SHOULD.

Drafting a LB in the 1st round is terrible value. Even if they needed LB's, it's terrible value.

LB is one of the least valuable positions on the field.

5 linebackers were taken in the first round last year. The most first round picks of any one position last year was 6. So I guess there are some NFL front offices that would disagree with you. (Including Seattle and Baltimore.)

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

5 linebackers were taken in the first round last year. The most first round picks of any one position last year was 6. So I guess there are some NFL front offices that would disagree with you.

It doesn't matter what other NFL teams are doing with their personnel, what matters is how the Chiefs use their personnel.

With Spagnuolo, the emphasis is on the Front Five and the Back Four.

The Chiefs are on their way to yet another Super Bowl victory with two 4th rounders in Hitchens and Wilson along with a UDFA in Neimann.

The Chiefs don't value linebackers like other teams. Hitchens and Gay will be the 2021 starters.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Taking an OT that is already on their board and is slotted at 32 is not a reach.

Taking an OT that wasn't on their board and/or is slotted way later than 32 is.

That's the point - not that taking an OT is an automatic reach but that they shouldn't let the Fisher injury change their draft strategy.

I think the Eric Fisher almost has to change their draft strategy. Not only that, it changes the entire offseason strategy IMO.

First, you have a guy that you're looking at probably giving a 4 or 5 year extension and potentially reducing that cap hit this coming offseason. Now, you don't know if the guy will ever play another meaningful down of football.

Sure, Achilles aren't what they "used to be" but the percentage of players that never return still hovers around 25% and of the remainder, there is generally at least the same percentage decrease (25%) in playing time and production in 3 years post-injury.

Point being, this is probably the single most significant injury the Chiefs could have suffered sans Mahomes.

We can say with confidence, Eric Fisher isn't playing effective snaps in 2021 and is scheduled to be a FA in 2022. That's a problem for the front office. We can all hope that he is Jason Peters 2.0 and he returns to the same form and plays to 38 years old at a consistently dominant level, but the chances of that are extremely slim.

Veach's MO to this point has largely been to draft to replace FA departures in the next offseason. The important FAs in 2022 are Fisher, Schwartz, Mathieu, Nnadi, Duvernay-Tardif, and Damien Williams. If we operate under the assumption that Niang develops into the RT replacement for Schwartz and that Veach extends Mathieu (he's so critical to what they do on defense), then you still have LT, DT, RG, and RB2 as keys. That's to go along with other needs like DE, WR, and OC that weren't addressed well enough in 2020.

If we're looking at positional to round value, LT and DE are going to need to be high picks if we expect reasonable performance.

I don't think Veach is going to play a guessing game at LT with a generational QB to protect.

It's a bit of a weird year at LT but I think your top 5 are a Sewell, Darrisaw, Vera Tucker, Leatherwood, and Mayfield as prospects. Where they go though, is hard to pinpoint. I've seen Mayfield late in 1 or early 2 alot in draft mocks. We'll have to see how it shakes out, but I have to think if one of those guys is there at 32, then Veach is pulling the trigger.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It doesn't matter what other NFL teams are doing with their personnel, what matters is how the Chiefs use their personnel.

With Spagnuolo, the emphasis is on the Front Five and the Back Four.

The Chiefs are on their way to yet another Super Bowl victory with two 4th rounders in Hitchens and Wilson along with a UDFA in Neimann.

The Chiefs don't value linebackers like other teams. Hitchens and Gay will be the 2021 starters.

I stand by my response to O.City’s comments, which were not specific to the Chiefs.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on how the Chiefs value linebackers. They paid a lot of money for Hitchens. He was the sixth highest paid player on the roster last year. As of right now, he will be the seventh highest paid player on the roster in 2021. We’ll see what happens in the next two years. I would not be surprised if the Chiefs did not draft a linebacker in the first round. All else being equal, odds are against it. But I do think that several dynamics on the defense MIGHT lead them down that path this April. That and the potential LB quality that may be available at that pick. Only time will tell, but I’ll call LB now. I’m sure someone will remind me in April, should I be wrong.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

I stand by my response to O.City’s comments, which were not specific to the Chiefs.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on how the Chiefs value linebackers. They paid a lot of money for Hitchens. He was the sixth highest paid player on the roster last year. As of right now, he will be the seventh highest paid player on the roster in 2021. We’ll see what happens in the next two years. I would not be surprised if the Chiefs did not draft a linebacker in the first round. All else being equal, odds are against it. But I do think that several dynamics on the defense MIGHT lead them down that path this April. Only time will tell.

I'd wager there is a zero percent chance Veach is drafting a LB in round 1 this year.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So, you think the difference between Derrick Henry and Darwin Award Thompson is "so small"?

If so, you and I evaluate talent much differently.

You consider Thompson to be a good running back?

I said the difference between good and great. Not great and average.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Gurley was drafted in 2015 and led the Rams to the 2018 Super Bowl. I'd say that was worth a 1st round pick.

He also had pretty nice numbers:

2015: 1,294 yards from scrimmage, 10 TD's
2016: 1,212 yards from scrimmage, 6 TD's
2017: 2,093 yards from scrimmage, 19 TD's
2018: 1,831 yards from scrimmage, 21 TD's
2019: 1,064 yards from scrimmage, 14 TD's.

The guy also had well more than 310 touches per season from 2016-2018, so it's not surprising that the wheels fell off in 2020. It's also difficult to overstate that he had 70 Touchdowns in 5 years with the Rams.

Damien Williams has been in the league since 2014 and has a grand total of 22 TD's.

But sure, very little difference between the two running backs.

That’s good numbers. It still was a shitty draft pick.

Running backs are easily found and easily replaced. Don’t draft them in the first round