Falcon and The Winter Soldier trailer

[Tribal Warfare]

[Kman34]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

HA!! Thanks..

[Buehler445]

I thought the first episode was really good. It was a lot heavier than I expected. I was here for the jokes. (Are you two really having a staring contest? How old are you? ). They’re hitting some pretty heavy stuff. And doing it well. After a little recalibration of expectations I think I’ll like it a lot more.

Spoiler!

Seemed like Bucky found peace in Wakanda. Guess not. And I hadn’t considered Sams increased pressure under being the guy. But it all makes sense in context.

I watched a dork video that pulled some pretty deep parallels to Winter Soldier that I missed. Dork video also speculated that

Spoiler!

The government is setting up Sam to fail so they can get their guy Torres in there and have controllable assets as Avengers.

Hadn’t considered it but they make a compelling case.

Overall really good. And the stuff about the therapy and the father on Buckys end and failure and pressure on Sams were really well done IMO.

[Buehler445]

Side note. It’s always weird when people pretend like consolidating and taking further debt for operating capital will somehow help a financial situation. What, is all the current debt in a credit card?

[DaneMcCloud]

I've watched three times so far and unfortunately, I'm pretty mixed about Episode 1.

We knew the action sequences were going to be amazing due to the price tag, so it wasn't a surprise to see the Falcon kick ass in action. The casting is spot-on and it was nice to see Don Cheadle (Terrance Howard, you ****ing idiot) because I'd either forgotten that he was attached or didn't know but either way, his presence gave the show some gravitas while also providing some humanity from a wise and familiar face.

I thought it was a really interesting choice to see Bucky seeking atonement for some of his dirty work, especially considering that it appears that he's seeking atonement from those who weren't his target and instead, were collateral damage. I think it's an interesting path but if Hawkeye doesn't take a similar path, it'll really be out of place because as Ronin, he murdered scores of people that will not ever come back. Imagine blipping 5 years ago, only to return a microsecond later, only to find family members murdered. Now, we know they were "bad guys" but Tony's Snap did nothing to help those Ronin killed.

I thought the introduction of the next Captain America was awkward to say the least. They said that America "needed a symbol" right now, in these "trying times" but they never revealed much about those "trying times". I mentioned in the WandaVision thread that I really wanted to see Marvel explore what happened when 4 Billion people disappeared off the face of the earth, then return five years later. And it wasn't just human life that was Snapped, it was ALL life. What happened to the oceans? The climate? What happens when those who comes back from The Blip find their loved one truly dead or that they've moved on? I hope they tell us more and don't leave it all too vague.

I didn't really care about Sam's backstory because it was lazy writing. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that not only was he not paid by anyone to be an Avenger but apparently, wasn't given a reward of money for helping to destroy Thanos and his army, while helping to return 4 billion people and the other half of non-intelligent life! I realize that people, and especially governments, around the world are selfish pricks but good grief, that doesn't even seem to be even remotely believable.

I mean, the guy is a worldwide superstar that just saved the world. The amount of pussy that dude would pull would surpass Tony Stark and there would be companies lining up for him to endorse their products. And if none of that happened, there isn't a doubt in my mind that someone, if not hundreds of people, would set up a Go Fund Me account because Falcon didn't work for the last 5 years because he blipped but came back and helped save the world. The dude would be a billionaire in less than 24 hours.

And finally, the score. After Christophe Beck's brilliant score throughout WandaVision, especially the first end credits, we're stuck with Henry Jackman, whose End Theme was totally forgettable, the action sequences were blah and there was absolutely no cohesion. I realize that everyone can't be Christophe Beck or Brian Tyler or Alan Silvestri but good grief, there are many other guys in town that would have killed that score, not just slept through it.

And wow. $150 million for six episodes that are less than 60 minutes. Yeesh.

[DaneMcCloud]

https://us13.campaign-archive.com/?u...&id=ab914d96ea

Well, this is kind of a bummer. From the writer/creator of The Winter Soldier:

And of course, today the FALCON AND WINTER SOLDIER show debuts on Disney+, which I sadly have very mixed feelings about. I'm really happy for Sebastian Stan, who I think is both a great guy and the perfect Bucky/Winter Soldier, and I'm glad to see him getting more screen time finally. Also, Anthony Mackie is amazing as the Falcon, and everyone at Marvel Studios that I've ever met (all the way up to Kevin Feige) have been nothing but kind to me... but at the same time, for the most part all Steve Epting and I have gotten for creating the Winter Soldier and his storyline is a "thanks" here or there, and over the years that's become harder and harder to live with. I've even seen higher-ups on the publishing side try to take credit for my work a few times, which was pretty galling (to be clear, I'm NOT talking about Tom Breevort, who was a great editor and really helpful).

So yeah, mixed feeling, and maybe it'll always be like that (but I sure hope not). Work-for-hire work is what it is, and I'm honestly thrilled to have co-created something that's become such a big part of pop culture - or even pop subculture with all the Bucky-Steve slash fiction - and that run on Cap was one of the happiest times of my career, certainly while doing superhero comics. Also, I have a great life as a writer and much of it is because of Cap and the Winter Soldier bringing so many readers to my other work. But I also can't deny feeling a bit sick to my stomach sometimes when my inbox fills up with people wanting comments on the show.

So... I'm sure I'll watch it, and you should too if you're a Marvel movie universe fan, but I'll probably be waiting a while to check it out myself. So please don't email me any spoilers, I guess, but go give Sebastian Stan lots of love wherever he is online.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I've watched three times so far and unfortunately, I'm pretty mixed about Episode 1.

We knew the action sequences were going to be amazing due to the price tag, so it wasn't a surprise to see the Falcon kick ass in action. The casting is spot-on and it was nice to see Don Cheadle (Terrance Howard, you ****ing idiot) because I'd either forgotten that he was attached or didn't know but either way, his presence gave the show some gravitas while also providing some humanity from a wise and familiar face.

I thought it was a really interesting choice to see Bucky seeking atonement for some of his dirty work, especially considering that it appears that he's seeking atonement from those who weren't his target and instead, were collateral damage. I think it's an interesting path but if Hawkeye doesn't take a similar path, it'll really be out of place because as Ronin, he murdered scores of people that will not ever come back. Imagine blipping 5 years ago, only to return a microsecond later, only to find family members murdered. Now, we know they were "bad guys" but Tony's Snap did nothing to help those Ronin killed.

I thought the introduction of the next Captain America was awkward to say the least. They said that America "needed a symbol" right now, in these "trying times" but they never revealed much about those "trying times". I mentioned in the WandaVision thread that I really wanted to see Marvel explore what happened when 4 Billion people disappeared off the face of the earth, then return five years later. And it wasn't just human life that was Snapped, it was ALL life. What happened to the oceans? The climate? What happens when those who comes back from The Blip find their loved one truly dead or that they've moved on? I hope they tell us more and don't leave it all too vague.

I didn't really care about Sam's backstory because it was lazy writing. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that not only was he not paid by anyone to be an Avenger but apparently, wasn't given a reward of money for helping to destroy Thanos and his army, while helping to return 4 billion people and the other half of non-intelligent life! I realize that people, and especially governments, around the world are selfish pricks but good grief, that doesn't even seem to be even remotely believable.

I mean, the guy is a worldwide superstar that just saved the world. The amount of pussy that dude would pull would surpass Tony Stark and there would be companies lining up for him to endorse their products. And if none of that happened, there isn't a doubt in my mind that someone, if not hundreds of people, would set up a Go Fund Me account because Falcon didn't work for the last 5 years because he blipped but came back and helped save the world. The dude would be a billionaire in less than 24 hours.

And finally, the score. After Christophe Beck's brilliant score throughout WandaVision, especially the first end credits, we're stuck with Henry Jackman, whose End Theme was totally forgettable, the action sequences were blah and there was absolutely no cohesion. I realize that everyone can't be Christophe Beck or Brian Tyler or Alan Silvestri but good grief, there are many other guys in town that would have killed that score, not just slept through it.

And wow. $150 million for six episodes that are less than 60 minutes. Yeesh.

I guess I didn’t think that deeply into it while watching.

I’m just glad to see Mackie and Stan be given a little more meat to work with than in the big screen movies. They are both extremely likeable leads.

$150 million for approx 4.8 hours of content. Seems reasonable compared to a 2 hour MCU movie budget ....

Are you campaigning for a future Marvel score?

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I've watched three times so far and unfortunately, I'm pretty mixed about Episode 1.

I didn't really care about Sam's backstory because it was lazy writing. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that not only was he not paid by anyone to be an Avenger but apparently, wasn't given a reward of money for helping to destroy Thanos and his army, while helping to return 4 billion people and the other half of non-intelligent life! I realize that people, and especially governments, around the world are selfish pricks but good grief, that doesn't even seem to be even remotely believable.

This is where Marvel’s cinematic and comic universe tend to struggle when trying to tell individual stories in a “connected” universe. It’s like how Iron Man 3 somehow had Tony Stark get obliterated by rockets by an earth based invader on a U.S. coast (how?) without SHIELD ever lifting a finger throughout that movie. You just have to turn your brain off to the connectivity of the universe sometimes (when the writers clearly do).

Both Peter Parker and Sam’s meager economic situation makes zero sense with their connection to the Avengers/Tony. The only thing would be if Tony Stark had a Bezos like selfishness to his wealth... but I don’t want to give someone like Rian Johnson any ideas to “explain” this leap in logic like he did for Luke in TLJ. Some of these leaps in logic are better left unexplained, I suppose.

[Deberg_1990]

Sam did say he has picked up some government contracts. So he’s not completely broke.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

I guess I didn’t think that deeply into it while watching.

Sure, I totally get that and wish I could "turn off" my brain but I just can't.

My brain won't let me.

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

I’m just glad to see Mackie and Stan be given a little more meat to work with than in the big screen movies. They are both extremely likeable leads.

They're both perfect for their roles and I'm looking forward to seeing them together in action.

The addition of Don Cheadle's Rhodie opens the door to other Avengers to appear in his upcoming series, so I totally dig that they're connecting this part of the MCU as well.

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

$150 million for approx 4.8 hours of content. Seems reasonable compared to a 2 hour MCU movie budget ...

I guess, although Ant-Man, Ant-Man II and Captain America: The First Avenger all cost less than one season of The Falcon & Winter Soldier.

$150 million is a lot of dough for a TV series but I'm sure Disney won't lose a dime on this series, especially considering it'll live forever.

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Are you campaigning for a future Marvel score?

There's no way I could commit to working 12 hours a day for 3-4 months straight and Ghost Writing gigs don't pay worth a damn, so my answer is not at this time.

I've been offered some animated series by Disney in the past few years and that line of communication is always open but I can't imagine taking on a huge project like this until both of my children are in their teens, which is a ways away.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

This is where Marvel’s cinematic and comic universe tend to struggle when trying to tell individual stories in a “connected” universe. It’s like how Iron Man 3 somehow had Tony Stark get obliterated by rockets by an earth based invader (how?) without SHIELD ever lifting a finger throughout that movie. You just have to turn your brain off to the connectivity of the universe sometimes (when the writers clearly do).

Both Peter Parker and Sam’s meager economic situation makes zero sense with their connection to the Avengers/Tony. The only thing would be if Tony Stark had a Bezos like selfishness to his wealth... but I don’t want to give someone like Rian Johnson any ideas to “explain” this leap in logic like he did for Luke in TLJ. Some of these leaps in logic are better left unexplained, I suppose.

What makes the fact that Sam (and I'm assuming, Bucky and many other Avengers) are broke is what took me right out of the narrative.

FFS, Kylie Jenner, who's a freaking billionaire, set up a Go Fund Me on Friday for her stylist to get health insurance and cover medical expenses from an accident. Nearly $100k has been raised in less than 3 days.

Yet, we're supposed to believe that actual Avengers members are broke? That's just a bridge too far for me.

[Deberg_1990]

I noticed that

Spoiler!

Government appointed Captain America is played by Wyatt Russel, Kurt Russels son.

That’s a neat bit of Disney casting.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

https://us13.campaign-archive.com/?u...&id=ab914d96ea

Well, this is kind of a bummer. From the writer/creator of The Winter Soldier:

And of course, today the FALCON AND WINTER SOLDIER show debuts on Disney+, which I sadly have very mixed feelings about. I'm really happy for Sebastian Stan, who I think is both a great guy and the perfect Bucky/Winter Soldier, and I'm glad to see him getting more screen time finally. Also, Anthony Mackie is amazing as the Falcon, and everyone at Marvel Studios that I've ever met (all the way up to Kevin Feige) have been nothing but kind to me... but at the same time, for the most part all Steve Epting and I have gotten for creating the Winter Soldier and his storyline is a "thanks" here or there, and over the years that's become harder and harder to live with. I've even seen higher-ups on the publishing side try to take credit for my work a few times, which was pretty galling (to be clear, I'm NOT talking about Tom Breevort, who was a great editor and really helpful).

So yeah, mixed feeling, and maybe it'll always be like that (but I sure hope not). Work-for-hire work is what it is, and I'm honestly thrilled to have co-created something that's become such a big part of pop culture - or even pop subculture with all the Bucky-Steve slash fiction - and that run on Cap was one of the happiest times of my career, certainly while doing superhero comics. Also, I have a great life as a writer and much of it is because of Cap and the Winter Soldier bringing so many readers to my other work. But I also can't deny feeling a bit sick to my stomach sometimes when my inbox fills up with people wanting comments on the show.

So... I'm sure I'll watch it, and you should too if you're a Marvel movie universe fan, but I'll probably be waiting a while to check it out myself. So please don't email me any spoilers, I guess, but go give Sebastian Stan lots of love wherever he is online.

That's sadly not surprising. Comic book creators are not well paid to begin with, and they don't own anything they create. Some creators have been able to get royalties, but who gets them and how much seems inconsistent. And Marvel is actually a lot worse than DC on that front, I remember a few years ago Jim Starlin said he was paid significantly more for a throwaway cameo of KGBeast in Batman v Superman than he was for the appearances of Thanos, Gamora, and Drax (all of whom he created) combined.

Honestly I was surprised to see Brubaker and Epting even got an on-screen credit as the creators of the Winter Soldier, since he was reconceptualization of an existing character.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

I noticed that

Spoiler!

Government appointed Captain America is played by Wyatt Russel, Kurt Russels son.

That’s a neat bit of Disney casting.

Wyatt is a cool dude, living his best life. Just had a baby with the stunning Merideth Hagner.

Did you catch Lodge 49?

[keg in kc]

First episode didn't do much for me. But neither did the first week of WandaVision. So hopefully it follows a similar trajectory.

They dropped me straight in the action, which I like, but then just spun wheels. I didn't really need an entire hour to establish "here's where they are" at the start a 6-hour miniseries.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I didn't really need an entire hour to establish "here's where they are" at the start a 6-hour miniseries.

I totally get that. But since all of the TV series and films will be interconnected moving forward, it was best to get that out of the way so they don't need to repeat it in any or all upcoming series or films.

BTW guys, I saw a workout video with Oscaar Isaac training for MoonKnight and I gotta say, I think it's going to be an mindblowingly awesome addition to the MCU.

He's such a great actor and has so much charisma that I could see him as the even cooler Tony Stark at some point soon. I'm not really familiar with the character but from what I've read about him, this series is going to be unreal.