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Old 06-01-2014, 09:40 AM  
DaFace DaFace is offline
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Space Exploration megathread

Since a number of cool things are happening in space exploration these days, we'll widen the scope of this thread a smidge. Conversation about all things space exploration are welcome, whether it be from NASA, SpaceX, ULA, Blue Origin, or anyone else. Chances are most of the discussion will still be about SpaceX since they love to make things public and fun, but nothing's off limits. I'll eventually get around to modifying the OP to include resources for other companies too, but in the meantime, feel free to post any cool stuff you run across.

Lists of Upcoming Missions



How to Watch a Live Launch


Where to Learn More
Spoiler!


Glossary
Spoiler!

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Old 08-02-2021, 02:29 PM   #4426
unlurking unlurking is offline
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Good read on ISS and atmosphere leaks...

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20110012997

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trending of Overboard Leakage of ISS Cabin Atmosphere
ISS cabin is maintained at a nominal total pressure between 96.5 kPa (14.0 psia) and 102.7 kPa (14.9 psia) and is composed of oxygen, nitrogen, small amounts of CO2 and other trace gases. The nominal total pressure allows for a livable environment similar to the pressures seen on the ground. The free air volume of the cabin also plays an important role due to the buffer it provides over the range of the nominal pressures. The free air volume is defined as the volume of the ISS that the atmosphere can equalize into. Volume taken up by structure or pressure vessels is not included. The free air volume has increased over the life of ISS due to the additions of modules to the United States On-Orbit Segment (USOS) and Russian On-Orbit Segment (RSOS). The increased ISS volume has extended the response time to having to add nitrogen or air for a given leak rate as well as adding oxygen in support of metabolic needs. At the beginning of 2008 the free air volume of the ISS was 434 m3 (15,318 ft3). After the addition of multiple modules, the ISS free air volume was 899 m3 (31,741 ft3) by March 2011. Visiting vehicles other than Shuttle are included in the volumes numbers. There are nominally 4 visiting vehicles docked to the ISS with the typical complement of vehicles consisting of 2 Soyuz and 2 Progress. An evaluation of a theoretical leak rate of 1 lbm/day air illustrates the benefit of the additional volume to the ISS. At the beginning of 2008, a 0.45 kg/day (1 lbm/day) air would have taken 70 days to drop the ISS total pressure from 102.7 kPa (14.9 psia) to 96.5 kPa (14.0 psia). However by March 2011, a 0.45 kg/day (1 lbm/day) air leak rate would have taken 146 days to drop the ISS total pressure from 102.7 kPa (14.9 psia) to 96.5 kPa (14.0 psia).
Some take aways for a Mars mission seem to be that the larger the vehicle volume, the more amount of time to resolve a leak; and the more connection ports, the more opportunities for leaks. Since SS has a similar volume to the ISS, it's probably comparable on leakage mitigation timelines. Since it has significantly fewer ports, it should also have significantly less opportunity for leaks to develop in the first place. I imagine a Mars colony (at least an early colony) would likely be built with lots of modules and connection ports, but hopefully with each module being much larger than the modules on ISS.
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Old 08-02-2021, 03:57 PM   #4427
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlurking View Post
Good read on ISS and atmosphere leaks...

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20110012997



Some take aways for a Mars mission seem to be that the larger the vehicle volume, the more amount of time to resolve a leak; and the more connection ports, the more opportunities for leaks. Since SS has a similar volume to the ISS, it's probably comparable on leakage mitigation timelines. Since it has significantly fewer ports, it should also have significantly less opportunity for leaks to develop in the first place. I imagine a Mars colony (at least an early colony) would likely be built with lots of modules and connection ports, but hopefully with each module being much larger than the modules on ISS.
I seem to remember seeing that the plan would be to leave Starships behind that could be used as long-term habitats but that may have just been some rumor or idea someone had. Makes sense though if you could retrofit the entire rocket to be living quarters.

Also saw a thing where the PSI on a plane is only 4-5 but that may not be the case on a planet with little atmosphere to begin with. Clearly pressurizing habitats is not my strong suit but I find it super interesting and hope Musk pulls it off.
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Old 08-02-2021, 04:00 PM   #4428
Donger Donger is offline
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Originally Posted by RINGLEADER View Post
I seem to remember seeing that the plan would be to leave Starships behind that could be used as long-term habitats but that may have just been some rumor or idea someone had. Makes sense though if you could retrofit the entire rocket to be living quarters.

Also saw a thing where the PSI on a plane is only 4-5 but that may not be the case on a planet with little atmosphere to begin with. Clearly pressurizing habitats is not my strong suit but I find it super interesting and hope Musk pulls it off.
Commercial aircraft pressurize to about 10 to 12 psi. Just like Denver.

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Old 08-02-2021, 04:20 PM   #4429
unlurking unlurking is offline
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Originally Posted by RINGLEADER View Post
I seem to remember seeing that the plan would be to leave Starships behind that could be used as long-term habitats but that may have just been some rumor or idea someone had. Makes sense though if you could retrofit the entire rocket to be living quarters.

Also saw a thing where the PSI on a plane is only 4-5 but that may not be the case on a planet with little atmosphere to begin with. Clearly pressurizing habitats is not my strong suit but I find it super interesting and hope Musk pulls it off.
Yeah, all sorts of people throwing out ideas on how to use SS as habitats (including the empty tankage) on reddit. The most common hurdle seems to be trying to figure out how to go from vertical to horizontal so that the ship could be partially buried in order to protect against radiation as well as making it easier to live in. Unfortunately their not build to withstand that orientation and I doubt Musk intends to create a special version. I imagine the first few SS on Mars may double as temporary or emergency shelters, but they won't be used longer term.

NASA has been running an autonomous 3D printed habitat challenge for a few years now. Some absolutely beautiful designs as well as some already tested concepts.

https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/sp...Hab/index.html

Here is a quick video from the finale winner. They are apparently trying to use the tech to build homes in areas with minimal access for construction/materials here on Earth as well.



From a purely aesthetic perspective, this was my favorite entrant...


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Old 08-02-2021, 07:30 PM   #4430
DaFace DaFace is offline
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I almost think this frantic pace is just Elon trying to light a fire under the FAA's ass. Seems crazy that they could possibly be ready to launch it soon.

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Old 08-02-2021, 08:13 PM   #4431
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Commercial aircraft pressurize to about 10 to 12 psi. Just like Denver.

The thing I pulled up said 4-5 — but at cruising altitudes if 30K to 40K feet.

Damn you Internet.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:27 AM   #4432
unlurking unlurking is offline
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Originally Posted by DaFace View Post


I almost think this frantic pace is just Elon trying to light a fire under the FAA's ass. Seems crazy that they could possibly be ready to launch it soon.
They also did this right before the press event when they showed off SN1. I'm kind of hoping we get another one of those next week. Been a long time since Elon spoke about current plans/vision with more characters than Twitter. I imagine the FAA would factor heavily into the talk and questions.


Also looking forward to Dodd's recent interview/tour to drop. Not a fan of his live events, but love his interviews and ELI5 videos.
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:13 AM   #4433
Donger Donger is offline
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I almost think this frantic pace is just Elon trying to light a fire under the FAA's ass. Seems crazy that they could possibly be ready to launch it soon.
Are they saying that Super Heavy is going to orbit without a Starship attached?

Surely they'll do a few hop tests of just Super Heavy first.
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:17 AM   #4434
Donger Donger is offline
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The thing I pulled up said 4-5 — but at cruising altitudes if 30K to 40K feet.

Damn you Internet.
I'm not sure what you pulled up, but commerical aircraft aren't pressurized at 4 to 5 psi at any altitude. The passengers wouldn't like it much... That's what it's like at the summit of Everest.
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:22 AM   #4435
unlurking unlurking is offline
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Are they saying that Super Heavy is going to orbit without a Starship attached?

Surely they'll do a few hop tests of just Super Heavy first.
Nope, it will have SN20 on top. SH won't actually go to orbit, just SS.
A lot of people hoping for a launch date of September 6th due to the meme-generation of fans (unofficial flight # 69420).
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:24 AM   #4436
Donger Donger is offline
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Nope, it will have SN20 on top. SH won't actually go to orbit, just SS.
A lot of people hoping for a launch date of September 6th due to the meme-generation of fans (unofficial flight # 69420).
Oh wow. That seems... ambitious.
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:48 AM   #4437
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Yeah. I'd love to see it, but I'm guessing October or November at best due to FAA NEPA process. Apparently a 30 day window for public comment is required and that hasn't started yet.
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:53 AM   #4438
Donger Donger is offline
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Yeah. I'd love to see it, but I'm guessing October or November at best due to FAA NEPA process. Apparently a 30 day window for public comment is required and that hasn't started yet.
If I remember the filed FAA flight plan, they have SH landing off the coast of Texas. Are they planning a water landing, or do they have something out there large enough for it to land on? The existing droneships are too small, no?
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Old 08-03-2021, 09:03 AM   #4439
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If I remember the filed FAA flight plan, they have SH landing off the coast of Texas. Are they planning a water landing, or do they have something out there large enough for it to land on? The existing droneships are too small, no?
Not yet, Phobos and Deimos are still in port getting "rebuilt". As I understand it, they plan to simulate an RTLS soft landing over water. SS is supposed to be completing almost 1 orbit and also attempt a soft landing over water north of Hawaii. I imagine NASA will have it's chase planes out for some excellent footage. I'm sure SpaceX will have some drones too.

Link to an Eric Berger article with comments about the FAA process...
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...et-last-night/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berger
For months, SpaceX has been working with the FAA on an environmental assessment. After a "draft" of this assessment is published, there will be a minimum of a 30-day period for public comments. This will be followed by other steps, including a determination by the FAA on whether SpaceX's proposed environmental mitigations will be enough, or if more work is required. More information about this process is available on the FAA's website.
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Old 08-03-2021, 09:04 AM   #4440
Donger Donger is offline
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Originally Posted by unlurking View Post
Not yet, Phobos and Deimos are still in port getting "rebuilt". As I understand it, they plan to simulate an RTLS soft landing over water. SS is supposed to be completing almost 1 orbit and also attempt a soft landing over water north of Hawaii. I imagine NASA will have it's chase planes out for some excellent footage. I'm sure SpaceX will have some drones too.

Link to an Eric Berger article with comments about the FAA process...
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...et-last-night/
Right, I knew about Starship body surfing off Hawaii, but not SH. Thanks.
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