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Old 12-20-2019, 02:29 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Sorry View Post
It def was a sjw mess.i support more inclusion but not if it results to lackluster plot devices. I did enjoy the attempt to try something original but it completely killed my interest in any of the main characters. It was better than force awakens.
That's the problem, though. Let Rian try something original with something original, not the middle movie in a trilogy that's the back end of the Skywalker saga that spans literal generations.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:51 PM   #3
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The problem, ultimately, is that Star Wars has such a widespread audience. Kids, casual fans, those brought up with Clone Wars/the prequels, and those that have been involved with each of the movies from the original series, and of course, those that have dived into the EU from the very beginning.

I think it means that the fanbase, as a whole, doesn't really know what it wants from a movie. People largely forgave TFA for stealing ANH because it revived the series, but the overwhelming consensus was that TLJ had to be original. It couldn't just run through the motions of ESB. Unfortunately, JJ set up all of the main storybeats to follow ESB, but I digress.

We did get something original, and the people that hated it, hated it. There are legitimate beefs about the movie, there were too many plotlines (a problem that developed solely because of the edits to Rian's script). Holdo stepping in for Leia (a problem that developed solely because of edits to Rian's script), not enough focus on Luke/Rey (a problem that developed solely because of edits to Rian's script) and Rose and Finn doing whatever those two were doing (a problem that developed solely because of edits to Rian's script).

Anywho, I think I've made my point. A lot of weird things happened between Rian's first draft, production, and the edit. I don't know who got involved or what the ideas behind the changes were, but it's always made me wonder if that's why Disney has kept Rian around since the things criticized most about TLJ were choices that were not in Rian's original script.

Astral Projection and Luke dying were always going to be divisive. When Carrie Fisher passed, I think the obvious choice was to keep Luke alive. At any rate, I love that scene with Luke - even if his ****-talking to Kylo now feels cruel thanks to JJ deciding that it was actually a dead dark lord who was responsible for every bad thing Kylo has ever done (how creative, Abrams!)
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Old 12-20-2019, 03:27 PM   #4
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Just saw it. Rey is the Avatar the last force bender.
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:11 PM   #5
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Man, remember how stoked we all were at that 6 second clip where Finn ignited a lightsaber against Kylo?

Good times.
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:35 PM   #6
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Man, remember how stoked we all were at that 6 second clip where Finn ignited a lightsaber against Kylo?

Good times.
TFA was fine. We were all excited before and after.

TLJ reduced some of that excitement, but a lot of us were still eager for the next one.

JJ killed it DEAD. I mean he just ****ed Star Wars corpse.

"Rey is a Palpatine! No explanation how! And Palpatine is BACK! No explanation how! Now look at these ****ing FLYING STORMTROOPERS using BIKES WITH WHEELS when they are chasing the good guys using SPEEDERS"

"We've already removed logic from the main plot points so we've removed it from THE ENTIRE MOVIE!"

"The bad guys would win but THEY COULDN'T LIFT OFF IN TIME even though THEY'VE HAD YEARS TO DO IT and LITERALLY ALREADY SENT OUT ONE SHIP!"

"And Rey is now LITERALLY JESUS CHRIST!"

"LOOK AT THIS ****ING CGI!"
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Old 12-20-2019, 06:04 PM   #7
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one thing I DO enjoy are the explanations we get in the visual dictionaries

i'll post here as i find them

Knights of Ren

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Mustafar

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Sith SSD

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Last edited by Hammock Parties; 12-20-2019 at 06:09 PM..
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Old 12-20-2019, 06:15 PM   #8
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Oh....this.

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Rey being Palpatine's granddaughter. Despite how ridiculous Sheev clapping cheeks sound, it isn't the main problem I have with the reveal. It is the negative buildup that makes it ridiculous. Why does Anakin's lightsaber call out to Rey if she's a Palpatine? The movie implies that she inherently is pulled towards the Dark Side and to have the Skywalker lightsaber call out to a Palpatine who is the source of the family's misery and suffering is just bad storytelling. JJ clearly wanted Rey to be a Skywalker in TFA and he should've made her so without taking the path of a cheap twist that makes no sense story-wise.
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:15 PM   #9
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^^Hasn't it been said somewhere that JJ initially intended for her to be a Skywalker and Rian Johnson changed it.
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:28 PM   #10
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^^Hasn't it been said somewhere that JJ initially intended for her to be a Skywalker and Rian Johnson changed it.
Rian left it completely open-ended.

As it is, making her a Palpatine is just plain DUMB.

Not only is the setup not believable in the slightest, ANAKIN'S LIGHTSABER WAS CALLING TO A PALPATINE?

JJ Abrams is the biggest hack who's ever worked on popular movies.
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Old 12-21-2019, 12:59 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Hammock Parties View Post
Rian left it completely open-ended.

As it is, making her a Palpatine is just plain DUMB.

Not only is the setup not believable in the slightest, ANAKIN'S LIGHTSABER WAS CALLING TO A PALPATINE?

JJ Abrams is the biggest hack who's ever worked on popular movies.
Maybe it was calling to her because she was similar, but stuck with the Jedi instead of going to the Dark side. Or because the force knew the Skywalkers would take her in.
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:39 PM   #12
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I don't understand all the negativity. I'm not going to put it at the top of the list, there are some things I would change, but it wasn't a bad film overall.
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:00 PM   #13
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I don't understand all the negativity. I'm not going to put it at the top of the list, there are some things I would change, but it wasn't a bad film overall.
When films abandon logic and don't even bother to explain why characters are in a film, or how characters can be something they shouldn't be, they are bad films.

A bad film can still be entertaining.

This was like The Force Unleashed, which was horrible even by video game standards, got made into a ****ing movie.

Lazy action schlock.
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Hammock Parties View Post
When films abandon logic and don't even bother to explain why characters are in a film, or how characters can be something they shouldn't be, they are bad films.

A bad film can still be entertaining.

This was like The Force Unleashed, which was horrible even by video game standards, got made into a ****ing movie.

Lazy action schlock.
The only people who seem to be savaging it are the hyper-nerds, who have built such a degree of expectation into everything the franchise puts out that they can't ever be made happy. Even the originals don't compare to these standards.

The sequel trilogy wasn't as good as the original but it had some good moments, and it was a hell of a lot better than the prequels.
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Old 12-21-2019, 12:21 AM   #15
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The only people who seem to be savaging it are the hyper-nerds, who have built such a degree of expectation into everything the franchise puts out that they can't ever be made happy. Even the originals don't compare to these standards.

The sequel trilogy wasn't as good as the original but it had some good moments, and it was a hell of a lot better than the prequels.
100% NOT true.

I'm a hyper nerd and I loved TFA and TLJ.
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