Conspiracy, the Paranormal, the Unexplained and the Esoteric

[keg in kc]

Figure this would have a better chance of surviving in the Media Center than on the main page, and I'll be adding youtube and podcast links from time to time as I come across them, so it fits.

This has been something that's interested me from a very young age, all aspects of mysterious stuff, whether we're talking forgotten or forbidden archeology or civilization (Atlantis, pre-colombian exploration of america, etc), unexplained events (like Tunguska in 1908, the lost Roanoke Island colony, etc), paranormal events like ghosts, the study of ESP and that sort of thing, conspiracy (ranging from JFK to stuff like the perpetration of the drug war and the infilitration of the media by US intelligence) and, of course, UFOs (which to me means "unexplained" not "extraterrestrial" but that's a whole other topic).

Anything could show up, and everybody should feel free to add whatever they like. Just try to keep it as civil and respectful as possible. This is not intended to be a DC thread; it's as much for entertainment purposes as it is to solve all the world's mysteries.

**Although if anybody posts anything from Third Phase of Moon they should probably expect me to kick them in the balls.**

Few things I like to watch or listen to in no particular order (most of this can be found on itunes as well...):

The Paracast
Binall of America
The Gralian Report
The Paranormal Report
Dark City
Radio Misterioso
Open Minds (mostly their podcast)

That's it for now, just wanted to get this started. Been thinking about doing it for a while...

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Had never heard of this trace case before it was mentioned on yesterday's Paracast. Wonder why it isn't more prominent.

Delphos, KS, 1971: http://www.ufocasebook.com/Kansas.html

Watched a show a few years back, they went to that ring and it still wont support life, another boulder on the mountain of evidence.

Heres one thats pretty freaky, the Fresno Walkers... watched a show called "Fact or Faked" try to replicate this by various means and couldnt even come close.

High strangeness...

[Rausch]

This might be good...

http://www.patientseventeen.com/Pati...SEVENTEEN.html

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Rausch

This might be good...

http://www.patientseventeen.com/Pati...SEVENTEEN.html

The things that guy has pulled from people defy explanation.

The 15 minute clip of him testifying in front of the national press corp at the bottom left of that page is great, he lays it out.

[Easy 6]

Gonna bring things back into the appropriate thread here...

But, the assertion that folks like Fish aggressively, vehemently state that "there is absolutely nothing that says or proves that something not of earthly origin, yet intelligently controlled has ever been in our sky or on this planet... not ONE shred of evidence, its ALL garbage", is the actual garbage.

When some of the highest ranking military personnel we have come forward saying they touched one, when heads of various nations defense establishments say its real, when countless astro/cosmonauts have attested to its truth, when the scientific advisor of Project Blue Book says it real... then its damn. well. real.

And thats just a very short list.

"Oh but thats just an appeal to authority, oh but wheres the crashed vehicle, oh wheres the captured alien blah blah blah".

First of all, the unimpeachable credibility of literally hundreds of witnesses would be enough to convict anyone of anything... "but that dont count blah blah blah, wheres the proof?" "what a pathetic appeal to authority"... well, appeals to authority are what convict damn near everyone ever convicted of anything. Credible eyewitnesses, expert testimony brought in by the defense and prosecution etc.

So its good enough to send a man to death row, but its not enough to say "hey, this is something real going on" yeah ok

Secondly, of course the government isnt rolling out what it has for the nation to inspect... are some of you that ****ing dense?

And just because black science man isnt talking about it, sure doesnt mean that extremely credible scientists across the world arent furiously studying the very real phenomenon... particularly government scientists.

I'm going to start posting videos of various experts, people that no one can deny their credentials and also cannot deny their testimony. I've posted stuff on them before only to get the same tired tripe from the same tired posters, but the fact remains they cant deny who the person is and cannot deny their words.

I'll keep posting guys like this, and the usual suspects here can continue to spin their wheels trying to refute them.

Lt. Col. Charles Halt, a man directly responsible for nuclear missiles in Europe during the cold war...



J. Allen Hynek, one of the premier Blue Book scientists...

"I had started out as an outright debunker, taking great joy in cracking what seems at first to be puzzling cases. I was the arch enemy of those flying saucer groups and enthusiasts who very dearly wanted ufo's to be interplanetary. My own knowledge of those groups came almost entirely from what I heard from Blue Book personnel: they were all crackpots and visionaries. My transformation was gradual but by the late 60's it was complete. Today I wouldnt spend one further moment on the subject of ufo's if I didnt seriously feel that the ufo phenomenon is real and that efforts to investigate it and understand it, and eventually solve it, could have a profound effect -- perhaps even be the springboard to mankinds outlook on the universe.

Why dont astronomers report ufo's? they DO, as Dr. Hynek explains here...

[Jerm]

Part of a paranormal investigation at a virgin location in Northern MO tomorrow night...can't wait, should be good.

We're talking about going to Waverly in the summer...what a dream trip that would be.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Jerm

Part of a paranormal investigation at a virgin location in Northern MO tomorrow night...can't wait, should be good.

We're talking about going to Waverly in the summer...what a dream trip that would be.

What are you investigating?

What its about doesnt matter, please explain the investigation in detail and what, if anything, happened.

[Fish]

So you know full well that you're using a logical fallacy, but gosh darnit in this case it's actually true because you believe!

Keg has been asking why the UFO phenomenon isn't given more respect. Well... this is a big part of it. Because there are so many out there who want so badly to believe, that they readily admit that they'll using logical fallacies as justification, and they simply don't care. They are so caught up in wanting it to be true, that they don't believe any critical thinking needs to be applied in that process.

Scott, there's an important reason why you've posted eyewitness testimonies before, only to get the same tired tripe. It's the same reason why an eyewitness testimony isn't enough to convict someone of a crime in light of no other evidence. Eyewitness testimonies are proven to be one of the most unreliable forms of evidence. There's a reason why we have millions of outrageous eyewitness testimonies, yet still we have zero actual physical evidence despite many decades of video pointed at the sky. That is why you get the reaction you do when you say "Ignore logical fallacies and believe anyway!". I want it to be true as badly as anyone. But I just can't throw critical thinking out the window for it like you do...

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Fish

Keg has been asking why the UFO phenomenon isn't given more respect. Well... this is a big part of it. Because there are so many out there who want so badly to believe, that they readily admit that they'll using logical fallacies as justification, and they simply don't care. They are so caught up in wanting it to be true, that they don't believe any critical thinking needs to be applied in that process.

I haven't asked why. I've explained why, and then lamented the fact. You are correct that the believers pollute. I've said that over and over. I've also said that the debunkers and people entirely outside the subject are either unwilling to or incapable of separating the believers from the skeptics - by that I mean the true skeptics, and not the debunkers who call themselves skeptics while working the problem in exactly the same way the believers do, just from the antagonistic side.

The problem is that everybody in the field is painted with the same broad brush, and therefore even the serious researchers - who are not the most popular researchers - can never be taken seriously. People think of UFO Reasearch and they equate it with garbage like Ancient Aliens or UFO Hunters or Hangar 1. People think of paranormal or crypto research and they think of crap like Ghost Hunters or Finding Bigfoot. They don't know, or care to know, anything about the real research that's being done. The research that's looking for answers without predisposition.

Of course part of the problem is that much of that research isn't public, like the work being done by Bigelow Aerospace and Jaques Vallee. Or the data collected by Ray Stanford or Ted Phillips or any of a number of other researchers.

And no, that's not saying that I believe proof of some alien cover-up is being hidden. That's simply saying that some of the best, most serious research is not something that any of us can look at online, or something we'll see on H2 or Discovery or the Smithsonian Channel. All we get to see are the entertaining kooks like Richard Hoagland or Georgio Tsoukalos. Because that's entertainment and that's what sells ads.

I don't know what the UFO phenomenon represents. I don't know if it's extraterrestrial or military or something exotic from earth we aren't aware of or a natural phenomenon like weather we don't understand yet or an echo of another reality or something nobody has even thought of yet.

And the only thing I believe is that it's a mystery worth exploring. Exploring seriously and scientifically.

[Easy 6]

I dont need to "wish it to be true", I've watched one fly by me close enough to halfheartedly toss a rock at and hit it.

Heres the former Canadian Minister of Defense explaining the reality...



Gordon Cooper admits the reality...



The former mortician of Roswell, NM knows the truth...



An air traffic controller spills the beans...



My own uncle was Lt. Col in the Montana Air Guard during the incident at Malmstrom AFB when ufo's were hovering over nuclear missile silos and systematically shutting them down. He admitted that it was all quite real to my mother years ago.

[keg in kc]

I have a hard time taking Paul Hellyer seriously. I've never thought much of Glenn Dennis, either. I've always preferred Jessie Marcel, Jr., but he's unfortunately passed away. I think the whole Roswell story is about dead at this point, although they're trying hard to keep it on life support with the "slides" that are finally coming out in May. Not that it wasn't an important story, but it happened so long ago that it's next to impossible that any new, definitive information can come out about it. It's 70 years in the past and basically everyone who could have been involved or a witness is dead. That's the reason I'm more interested in stuff that happened in the 60s or later like the Malmstrom events you referenced or Rendlesham or JAL flight 1628 (with its radar data, so it's not just another witness testimony...).


Neat video from NASA, not really related to anything paranormal, just thought it was fun in general:

[Easy 6]

Why not take Hellyer seriously?

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Why not take Hellyer seriously?

Because he's in his 90s and has shown signs of questionable sanity for 25 or 30 years.

I did an edit to my previous post btw, added some other thoughts.

[Easy 6]

Yeah, the JAL flight has a ton of radar evidence, they were heading into Anchorage AK iirc.

Thats a great case for skeptics to take a look at.

[keg in kc]

It's not the only one, there's a number of cases with corroborating evidence, but the problem is that everybody gets hung up on the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Point being you can't prove what something is by radar data or camera footage. But you can prove it's an actual, physical object confirmed by something other than the naked eye. 'course the trick is actually getting that data in the first place from the FCC (who actually tried to deny that they had evidence of the JAL sighting but got burned) or from the military, who almost never shares anything. I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that Luke Air Force Base had data of whatever object was sighted during the Pheonix Lights incident, but it'll never see the light of day.

There's been some recent analysis of physical trace materials with...unusual results, but all that stuff is in early stages. I think if there's ever proof of anything from off earth, that's the only way it can ever be confirmed, by discovery of some material that isn't native to here.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

It's not the only one, there's a number of cases with corroborating evidence, but the problem is that everybody gets hung up on the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Point being you can't prove what something is by radar data or camera footage. But you can prove it's an actual, physical object confirmed by something other than the naked eye. 'course the trick is actually getting that data in the first place from the FCC (who actually tried to deny that they had evidence of the JAL sighting but got burned) or from the military, who almost never shares anything. I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that Luke Air Force Base had data of whatever object was sighted during the Pheonix Lights incident, but it'll never see the light of day.

There's been some recent analysis of physical trace materials with...unusual results, but all that stuff is in early stages. I think if there's ever proof of anything from off earth, that's the only way it can ever be confirmed, by discovery of some material that isn't native to here.

My take on all of it, but this is a great example to use... is that when 3-4 highly trained pilots say that an aircraft carrier sized craft followed and circled them, at one point nearly hitting them, then I see no reason not to believe them even without radar evidence.

Theres just no possible way, IMO, to mistake something that massive for natural phenomena or other aircraft... it was huge and was clearly a craft of some sort.

Which brings me to the extraterrestrial/extradimensional thing... if there is something the size of an aircraft carrier out there, that is clearly a designed craft that is being intelligently controlled, and we know for sure mankind is incapable of building something even close to it... then what else could it possibly be?

Nature doesnt build aircraft carrier sized aircraft and neither does man.