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Direckshun · 01-21-2021, 01:23 PM

What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach.

I doubt I even need to run down the list but:

2020: CEH --> Williams
2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins
2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston
2017: Mahomes --> Smith

Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring.

The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options:

Niang vs. the rookie for starting RT
if the rookie wins, Niang can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
if Niang wins, the rookie can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
the Chiefs love Fisher but if both Niang and the rookie excel, maybe they cut bait
if only one of them excel, the Chiefs can extend Fisher

It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have.

I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes.

htismaqe · 01-26-2021, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Veach has shown he can get those cheap players later or as UDFA though.

LT is just so important for what KC does on offense. If they think there's a legit guy they love there, go get him.

It depends on how much they have to give up.

The team simply can't afford to give away 3 rookies to get 1 rookie - a bunch of UDFA's isn't always going to pan out. You need those mid-round picks and those are the ones you'd likely have to give up to trade up 10-12 spots in the first.

O.city · 01-26-2021, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

It depends on how much they have to give up.

The team simply can't afford to give away 3 rookies to get 1 rookie - a bunch of UDFA's isn't always going to pan out. You need those mid-round picks and those are the ones you'd likely have to give up to trade up 10-12 spots in the first.

For a LT though, you wouldn't?

htismaqe · 01-26-2021, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

For a LT though, you wouldn't?

No, this team can't afford it.

Clark, Jones, Mahomes, HB. If they are lucky enough to get Fisher's massive contract off the books, maybe they can spend some of that on a FA LT.

But this team is going to be building primarily through the draft for the rest of Mahomes' career. Giving up multiple draft picks to get one player, regardless of position, isn't sustainable. We'll end up with holes everywhere, lack of depth, and inability to withstand injuries, which is one thing we can actually do right now.

O.city · 01-26-2021, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

No, this team can't afford it.

Clark, Jones, Mahomes, HB. If they are lucky enough to get Fisher's massive contract off the books, maybe they can spend some of that on a FA LT.

But this team is going to be building primarily through the draft for the rest of Mahomes' career. Giving up multiple draft picks to get one player, regardless of position, isn't sustainable. We'll end up with holes everywhere, lack of depth, and inability to withstand injuries, which is one thing we can actually do right now.

LT is just such an important position, if you have to give up some role players for it, you do it. They can easily afford it if they hit another guy or two in the mid rounds etc.

As much as they throw the ball, they've gotta have a LT.

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-26-2021, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

LT is just so important for what KC does on offense. If they think there's a legit guy they love there, go get him.

The Chiefs started the 2019 season at 5-3, which included a ridiculous 13-19 loss to the Colts and a really ridiculous 24-31 loss to the Texans, both at home and both fairly inexusable.

The starting left tackle for those initial 8 games of the season? Cam Erving.

The same Cam Erving, who was cut after winning the Super Bowl and could only get a Vet Minimum deal with the Cowboys in 2020.

Left tackle is important to any team but I think you've overstated the importance in this Chiefs offense, when a guy of Cam Erving's, um, caliber, can help a team win a Super Bowl.

O.city · 01-26-2021, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Chiefs started the 2019 season at 5-3, which included a ridiculous 13-19 loss to the Colts and a really ridiculous 24-31 loss to the Texans, both at home and both fairly inexusable.

The starting left tackle for those initial 8 games of the season?

Cam Erving, who was cut after winning the Super Bowl and got a Vet Minimum deal with the Cowboys in 2020.

Left tackle is important to any team but I think you've overstated the importance in this Chiefs offense, when a guy of Cam Erving's, um, caliber, can help a team win a Super Bowl.

I think we can agree they wouldn't have went on to actually win the SB with him there though. Fisher coming back was huge. They were significantly worse with Erving there, which is enough for me to see they need someone good there long term.

Sassy Squatch · 01-26-2021, 02:44 PM

Yeah, thats a strange argument. I can distinctly remember Erving being a huge part of that Colts loss. Got pushed back into Mahomes so badly he stepped on his ankle and tweaked it again, and let Houston blow up our 4th down play to seal the game for the Colts.

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-26-2021, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Yeah, thats a strange argument. I can distinctly remember Erving being a huge part of that Colts loss. Got pushed back into Mahomes so badly he stepped on his ankle and tweaked it again, and let Houston blow up our 4th down play to seal the game for the Colts.

Uh, Shady McCoy's fumble in Colts territory was the killer.

He also played LT when the Chiefs beat the Vikings at home and nearly beat the Packers, both with Matt Moore at QB.

My point wasn't that Cam Erving was even remotely special, but that Andy Reid can scheme around any offensive deficiencies.

htismaqe · 01-26-2021, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

LT is just such an important position, if you have to give up some role players for it, you do it. They can easily afford it if they hit another guy or two in the mid rounds etc.

As much as they throw the ball, they've gotta have a LT.

No.

I don't agree.

There are many ways to get a tackle that don't require sacrificing at other positions.

Draft one at 32. Draft one at 32 AND at 64 if you think it's that much of a need.

This team has too many needs to be trading up from 32, for any postion, regardless of need.

mkp785 · 01-26-2021, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

For a LT though, you wouldn't?

Absolutely not. Unless we're getting Sewell

Dante84 · 01-26-2021, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

No.

I don't agree.

There are many ways to get a tackle that don't require sacrificing at other positions.

Draft one at 32. Draft one at 32 AND at 64 if you think it's that much of a need.

This team has too many needs to be trading up from 32, for any postion, regardless of need.

Counterpoints here:
- Our roster is super talented, and deep in key spots
- We can hopefully snag some ring-chasers in FA on a discount or creative contract structure.
- We are getting 2 mid-round comp picks in addition to our regular picks (minus a 6th)
- If EB leaves, we get another 3rd this year and next
- Veach will ball out with the UDFA's again, and they'll want to come here

If there's a stud we want, and Veach puts his nuts on the table for him, I wouldn't be shocked to see us make some moves.

htismaqe · 01-26-2021, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante84

Counterpoints here:
- Our roster is super talented, and deep in key spots
- We can hopefully snag some ring-chasers in FA on a discount or creative contract structure.
- We are getting 2 mid-round comp picks in addition to our regular picks (minus a 6th)
- If EB leaves, we get another 3rd this year and next
- Veach will ball out with the UDFA's again, and they'll want to come here

If there's a stud we want, and Veach puts his nuts on the table for him, I wouldn't be shocked to see us make some moves.

- Our roster is full of journeymen and potential free agents that need to be replaced. It's woefully thin at DE, possibly the most important position other than QB and is not deep at all at WR, which is the easiest way to protect Mahomes. And then there's the line, which needs as many as 3 new starters if not this year then the next.

- The cap isn't going to go up this year. Even with guys on discounts, the Chiefs are going to struggle to hit $195M. If the doomsday reports of $175M come true, the Chiefs will be in really bad shape.

- From what I've seen, we can expect a 4th and a 5th or 6th for comp picks. Not really premium picks by any means.

- It will take a lot more than an extra 3rd to move up to the middle of round one.

- No team balls out on UDFA's every year. I have every faith in Veach but nobody is perfect. We can't plan on this being the norm, we have to plan like it isn't and reap the benefits when it happens.

duncan_idaho · 01-26-2021, 06:27 PM

Moving up to 15-20 would require them to be 100 percent sure it was a can’t miss player who makes them dominant somewhere. I don’t think we’ll see it. But if we did it would say a lot about their evaluation of said player.

Moving up in the second? That I COULD see if Bienemy gets the Texans job. That pick plus a 5th next year is about right to move up to the middle of the second round.

el borracho · 01-26-2021, 07:24 PM

What happened to the logic of drafting BPA in the 1st? The Chiefs are already set at the superstar positions that guarantee 10-12 wins per season minimum. No need to fixate on a specific position at 32- just select the best player with some small consideration given to position (no K, nor P).

Megatron96 · 01-26-2021, 07:26 PM

Unless an amazing OT just happens to be there at 32, we aren't drafting an OL at 32.

End thread.

01-21-2021, 01:23 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch	The logic of drafting OT in the 1st. What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach. I doubt I even need to run down the list but: 2020: CEH --> Williams 2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins 2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston 2017: Mahomes --> Smith Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring. The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options: Niang vs. the rookie for starting RT if the rookie wins, Niang can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position if Niang wins, the rookie can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position the Chiefs love Fisher but if both Niang and the rookie excel, maybe they cut bait if only one of them excel, the Chiefs can extend Fisher It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have. I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes.
Posts: 59,262

01-26-2021, 02:44 PM	#157
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Sassy Squatch's Avatar Join Date: Oct 2010	Yeah, thats a strange argument. I can distinctly remember Erving being a huge part of that Colts loss. Got pushed back into Mahomes so badly he stepped on his ankle and tweaked it again, and let Houston blow up our 4th down play to seal the game for the Colts.
Posts: 37,900	1 0

01-26-2021, 06:27 PM	#163
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U duncan_idaho's Avatar Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City	Moving up to 15-20 would require them to be 100 percent sure it was a can’t miss player who makes them dominant somewhere. I don’t think we’ll see it. But if we did it would say a lot about their evaluation of said player. Moving up in the second? That I COULD see if Bienemy gets the Texans job. That pick plus a 5th next year is about right to move up to the middle of the second round.
Posts: 21,085

01-26-2021, 07:24 PM	#164
el borracho In Pat We Trust el borracho's Avatar Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Albuquerque, NM	The logic of drafting OT in the 1st. What happened to the logic of drafting BPA in the 1st? The Chiefs are already set at the superstar positions that guarantee 10-12 wins per season minimum. No need to fixate on a specific position at 32- just select the best player with some small consideration given to position (no K, nor P).
Posts: 11,825

01-26-2021, 07:26 PM	#165
Megatron96 Suupraa Geniuuusss Megatron96's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Unless an amazing OT just happens to be there at 32, we aren't drafting an OL at 32. End thread.
Posts: 29,736