Moving Nationally or Internationally

[BIG_DADDY]

If you were going to move would you consider an international move ever? If you were going to pick another spot in the good old USA where would you like to be? For me I could see Austin in my not too distant future. If our country goes hard left I would have to look at the options at that time but I am going to start the process next year. I would love to look at Panama. I have seen several clients and friends move over the years. The most popular places have been Costa Rica, Philippines, Equador and Brazil but I know a lot of Brazilians. i can't forget Monaco for those with a lot of cash.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by nbkc fan

Of note- in SoCal, Orange and Corona may look pretty close, but they are extremely different places. In Corona, temps are 10-15 degrees hotter, politics lean much farther to the right, and it can take over an hour with normal traffic to get between the two. There’s also some pretty negative attitudes about people that live in corona (and further East) anywhere worth going to in SoCal.

That's weird. They're pretty close, but yeah, the climate site I've been using shows Corona to be much warmer. I was looking for sample houses in Orange and didn't notice that they had given me some houses in "surrounding areas".

If I was retired I probably wouldn't worry about reputation as long as the living environment was nice. I'd just wear a t-shirt that says, "I'm retired so I don't care". But are you saying the perceptional difference impacts Corona and not Orange, or both of them?

Living on the coast would certainly be nice, but it's just not in the cards due to real estate costs. I go to Newport Beach regularly, and you made a good call living there.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by KCUnited

Love the idea of that Port Angeles area and the home itself. May be too tucked away for me though. I've always wanted to visit that area but never do because it seems like a pain to get to. Which has its perks I guess until you want to travel elsewhere yourself.

Lake Havasu is intriguing, but I wonder outside of the obvious amazing lake, what the city itself has to offer. It seems kind of out there as well and I'm not really boat savvy at this stage in life.

I've only been there once and it was a pass through where I just stopped there for dinner. I remember thinking at the time that it was pretty gorgeous, but that's all I know. The climate is almost ideal for me, though, and if I can just ride a ferry to a town of 100,000 people I can probably get anything I need.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Random tidbit you may find interesting... Pyramid Peak is close to Port Angeles, which is around 3000' IIRC, and there's a World War II lookout at the peak.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyra...ervice_Lookout

Didn't spend much time in Port Angeles either time I've been up there, but it's a beautiful area. I looked at houses a while back and it's crazy how far out from Seattle you have to go before housing is somewhat reasonable.

Another random tidbit... you can visit the London Bridge in Lake Havasu City.

I would help man that lookout to protect our country. It would also be nice to have some mountains nearby, even if they're not large. I've grown accustomed to living in the loving embrace of mountains.

[Perineum Ripper]

https://hallhall.com/property-for-sa...91Y000023nPcr/





This would be a nice summer home for me

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I would help man that lookout to protect our country. It would also be nice to have some mountains nearby, even if they're not large. I've grown accustomed to living in the loving embrace of mountains.

Totally worth it for the view at the top... and who knows, maybe saving the country from destruction. And last time I was at the peak, my cell phone connected to a tower in Canada, so you'll be able to warn everyone.

The area has snow-capped mountains, temperate rain forest, a lot of coastline... a lot of area to explore.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by mac459

https://hallhall.com/property-for-sa...91Y000023nPcr/





This would be a nice summer home for me

Halvsies? Looks amazing.


Now I just need to find $45M + operating.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Halvsies? Looks amazing.


Now I just need to find $45M + operating.

40 year mortgage at 3% is only ~$160k/month.... granted, that adds like $30 million to total loan amount, so maybe look at putting in $300k for a while.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by mac459

https://hallhall.com/property-for-sa...91Y000023nPcr/





This would be a nice summer home for me

It's nice, but I'd want a large ranch that's more convenient to shopping. Maybe a large ranch in the city.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

40 year mortgage at 3% is only ~$160k/month.... granted, that adds like $30 million to total loan amount, so maybe look at putting in $300k for a while.

You can just .... keep those numbers to yourself

[Rain Man]

Rankings 26 through 30. It's getting serious now.

Sample houses:

26 – Pueblo (CO)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-72104?view=qv

27 – Fort Lauderdale (FL)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-52078?view=qv

28 – Delray Beach (FL)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-32452?view=qv

29 – Amarillo (TX)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-42743?view=qv

30 – Taos (NM)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-55148?view=qv

Summary (in ascending order)

Taos (NM) – My wife is a big fan, and I like it too. You can get a nice house for the money in a charming small town, and it’s a little more affordable overall than Denver. The summers are a little cooler than Denver due to the altitude, but the winters are a wash – notably colder but with only 2/3rd the snow. I think the biggest challenge here is the remoteness. It’s a small town, and to get to Santa Fe you have to go on a really twisty rural highway. That wouldn’t be ideal in the winter. I think this is a romantic pick, but not a practical one.

Amarillo (TX) – This is the opposite of Taos. It’s a practical pick, but not a romantic one. It’s notably more affordable, and you can get a nice house for the money. The summers are a little worse on temperature and humidity, and there’s less snow than Denver but it’s still cold. This is purely a financial play in my book. It’s an option, but I see better gains elsewhere.

Delray Beach (FL) – I know nothing about this place other than seeing it on a “best places to retire” list. We should talk about that sample house, though. That’s pretty epic. I’m assuming that the pool is screened in as opposed to air conditioned, right? Even so, it’s a very, very nice place. There are no winters here, and the summers are more humid than Denver, though only a couple of degrees warmer. My note of caution, though, is that I saw a number of houses on my home tour that require a country club membership that’s really expensive, in some cases $50k to buy in and $10k+ per year. I don’t see that with this house, but I’d definitely want to check. It’s a bit more affordable than Denver.

Fort Lauderdale (FL) – See above. They’re basically right next door to each other. I think I like the Delray house more, but Fort Lauderdale is still nice. And yeah, this Fort Lauderdale house is actually in Delray Beach while the Delray Beach house is actually in a different small city. I'm just looking through the lists when I do the search.

Pueblo (CO) – Pueblo is known as the unhippest town in Colorado, but I think it’s got potential. It’s a decent-sized city with restaurants and stuff, and the house is a good value for the money in a slightly more affordable locale. It only gets half the snow of Denver (a little lower and a little more south), but the winters are slightly colder and the summers are slightly warmer. Not sure it would be worth the trouble to move there.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

28 – Delray Beach (FL)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-32452?view=qv

That many mirrors in the bathroom is a bit.... unsettling.

Maybe the most bang for the buck so far though.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

That many mirrors in the bathroom is a bit.... unsettling.

Maybe the most bang for the buck so far though.

I guess the owner needs to review all angles of him/herself for maximum grooming.

I'm thinking, though, that this house might be a trap. I was worried about required country club memberships and didn't see it in the description, plus it's got a pretty high monthly HOA fee of $895. So I figured that it wasn't one of those properties. But looking a little more closely, it seems to be in a development that's linked to a country club.

The fees are extortionary. This is from a five year old article, so I suspect now you'd have to pay $55,000 up front and then another $12,000 a year in fees. And that's on top of the $895 monthly HOA fee. It's a direct requirement to own the house.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/articl...per%20quarter.

New homeowners must pay a non-refundable $10,000 initiation fee and purchase an equity stake in the club, which currently costs $41,450. The equity stake increases in price by $850 a year, but residents who sell their homes get back 70 percent of the going rate for the equity stake at the time they sell the property.

Residents also must pay yearly for one of three levels of membership: the golf membership, which costs $10,665; the tennis membership ($9,181) or the social membership ($8,439). Each neighborhood association charges its own fees, which range from about $1,200 to $2,000 per quarter. On a monthly basis, residents pay $221 to the club to cover the cost of common area upkeep and of renovations.

So it's a great house and seems like a screaming deal. But I think it's a screaming deal because the developer is pulling a ton of money out of you every year beyond the purchase price, and that drives down the home value. I think I'd need to find a different place in Delray Beach.

[Rain Man]

#21 through 25. See the picture for scoring.

Sample houses:

21 – Greeley (CO)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-92598?view=qv


22 – Honolulu (HI)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-99594?view=qv


23 – Bay St. Louis (MS)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-66168?view=qv


24 – Marfa (TX)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-98733?view=qv


25 – Denver (CO)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-14766?view=qv

Summary (in reverse order)

25 – Denver (CO) – This is an option of selling our house and buying a smaller condo in our same general neighborhood. My expected advantages here were that it would free up some home equity to produce income, and there’d be no need for exterior maintenance. In the long run, not having a lot of stairs may be necessary, too. The interesting thing about this is that when you sum everything up, it’s no more affordable than keeping our house, and the condo is a less attractive housing option. (My model builds in property taxes, a maintenance amount, and also income from the apartment in my house.) The HOA fee for the condo is pretty high, so you’re still paying for the maintenance indirectly. It’s a nice option because it’s Denver, so it scores high points on my scale, but other than the lack of stairs it offers no advantage at all over staying in my house. This was a good thing to learn.

24 – Marfa (TX) – My wife wants to visit Marfa and is intrigued by it. It’s a little artsy town that’s in southwest Texas, and it’s not near anything. It’s about three hours east of El Paso, three hours southwest of Odessa, and three hours north of Big Bend National Park. It’s pretty high in elevation, so the climate is surprisingly reasonable. The summers are about the same as Denver, and the winters are ten degrees warmer with almost no snow. That’s a win. The thing that’s not a win is that it’s a small town with a hit-or-miss housing stock that’s surprisingly expensive. It’s a bit more affordable than Denver due to low Texas taxes, and the sample house is reasonably nice, but you’d have to get lucky looking for a house there. It’s a better option than I thought from a climate perspective, though.

23 – Bay St. Louis (MS) – I’ve never been here, but a longtime friend of mine lives here and I thought it was kind of interesting. It’s on the Gulf Coast about an hour’s drive east of N’awlin’s. It actually stacks up very well. It’s very affordable, and the winters seem pretty darn nice. The summers are similar to Denver and notably more humid, as one might expect. The town leans heavily right politically for however you value that. I can’t say that I’m wowed by the architecture there, but there’s a good selection of houses that would work for me. I really wasn’t expecting much out of this place, so it surprised me positively.

And by the way, what’s the deal with the big open space in that sample house? It looks like it’s a small auto showroom or something. I first thought it was a patio, but it appears to be indoor space.

22 – Honolulu (HI) – Okay, I’ll say up front that I’m kind of suspicious here, and it turns out that my suspicion was correct. Honolulu should be ranked a lot lower for a reason that’s unique to the locale. I’ve always heard that Honolulu is expensive, and you may recall that Hilo, HI, was a non-competitive #74 in the rankings (though it too graded out as being affordable and it’s big problem was housing stock). So something was amiss and I found it in the fine print.

Obviously the climate is a winner here other than humidity – the January lows are 65 and the July highs are 85.

So back to the pricing. The condo seems very reasonably priced, and I figured out why. In the fine print, it says it’s a “leasehold” condo. Doing a little digging, leaseholds date back to the days when the King of Hawaii owned all of the land. They would lease the right to build on the land, but at the end of the lease the landowner owned whatever was on the property and they took it all. So if you buy a leasehold property, you own it, but essentially the value goes to zero when the leasehold ends. Your house or condo goes free and clear to whoever owns the land.

So the reason that this property seems affordable is likely because there’s not much longer on the leasehold team, so you’re essentially paying to buy it when it’s really just rent and you’ll lose the entire investment in a few years. Apparently a lot of times the landowner will negotiate a new lease when it ends, but that’s a cost that you have no control over, and if they want your condo (or house), they just take it. (Southern California has a similar but slightly different system on a lot of their coastal real estate, which is why it’s so high. But in their model you pay a monthly “land lease”.) I looked at some other places and they would often say how much longer was on the leasehold because that's a massive driver of the value. This place is a little skeezy in not mentioning it.

My initial thinking is that this system is a complete and total ripoff, and it is. But in thinking about it more, there’s a weird advantage to it for someone like me (or rather, someone 15 years older than me). I’ve got no kids and I don’t really care about leaving an inheritance to anybody, so someone like me can buy a condo with a relatively short lease as long as it’ll last the rest of my life, and I'll pay a discounted price for it. If I’m in my 70s at some point and want to move to Hawaii, I just find a place with a 15-year leasehold term remaining (with the appropriately discounted price) and make a bet that the leasehold will outlive me. So in looking at it, it’s a terrible deal for somebody under age 60 or whatever, but it’s a pretty good deal for a person who’s elderly and doesn't care about leaving an estate. Very weird. I will tuck that information into my back pocket for a couple of decades.

21 – Greeley (CO) – It’s notably more affordable than Denver, primarily due to inexpensive housing. But the climate is a slight downgrade with slightly colder winters and hotter summers, albeit with 1/3 less snow. I had to compromise on the housing sample and pick a house with a basement, so the housing stock’s not a great fit. While this ranks pretty high, the advantages of moving there from Denver are purely financial, and everything else is a bit of a downgrade. Not really worth it, in my opinion.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I guess the owner needs to review all angles of him/herself for maximum grooming.

I'm thinking, though, that this house might be a trap. I was worried about required country club memberships and didn't see it, plus it's got a pretty high monthly HOA fee of $895. So I figured that it wasn't one of those properties. But looking a little more closely, it seems to be in a development that's linked to a country club.

The fees are extortionary. This is from a five year old article, so I suspect now you'd have to pay $55,000 up front and then another $12,000 a year in fees. And that's on top of the $895 monthly HOA fee. It's a direct requirement to own the house.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/articl...per%20quarter.

New homeowners must pay a non-refundable $10,000 initiation fee and purchase an equity stake in the club, which currently costs $41,450. The equity stake increases in price by $850 a year, but residents who sell their homes get back 70 percent of the going rate for the equity stake at the time they sell the property.

Residents also must pay yearly for one of three levels of membership: the golf membership, which costs $10,665; the tennis membership ($9,181) or the social membership ($8,439). Each neighborhood association charges its own fees, which range from about $1,200 to $2,000 per quarter. On a monthly basis, residents pay $221 to the club to cover the cost of common area upkeep and of renovations.

So it's a great house and seems like a screaming deal. But I think it's a screaming deal because the developer is pulling a ton of money out of you every year beyond the purchase price, and that drives down the home value. I think I'd need to find a different place in Delray Beach.

Holy shit!

Most HOAs are scammy enough.... even if I had that kind of money, I'd really be curious where the hell all of that was going.

[Bearcat]

That Honolulu condo sold for $402k only six years ago... certainly looked like a steal when I clicked on it.