***Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread ***

[BigRedChief]

2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official

2023 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

Donovan 2B
Nootbar RF
Goldschmidt 1B
Arenado 3B
Wilson Contreras C
Tyler O'Neill LF
Gorman DH
Jordan Walker RF
Tommy Edman SS

2022 Opening Day roster.

Spoiler!

The Cardinals anticipated 26-player Opening Day roster projects as follows, but will not become official until Thursday, March 30:
PITCHERS (13): Jack Flaherty-RHP, Giovanny Gallegos-RHP, Ryan Helsley-RHP, Jordan Hicks-RHP, Steven Matz-LHP, Miles Mikolas-RHP, Jordan Montgomery-LHP, Packy Naughton-LHP, Andre Pallante-RHP, Chris Stratton-RHP, Zack Thompson-LHP, Drew VerHagen-RHP, and Jake Woodford-RHP;
CATCHERS (2): Willson Contreras and Andrew Knizner;
INFIELDERS (6): Nolan Arenado, Brendan Donovan, Tommy Edman, Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Gorman and Taylor Motter;
OUTFIELDERS (5): Alec Burleson, Dylan Carlson, Lars Nootbaar, Tyler O’Neill and Jordan Walker;
INJURED LIST (3): Paul DeJong-INF, Wilking Rodríguez-RHP, Adam Wainwright-RHP.

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

2022 thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...8#post16877588
2021 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124
2020 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812

[ScareCrowe]

Originally Posted by bdj23

That's kinda what i was getting at. I'd take a Wacha reunion over Matz or Lynn

I just don't understand the thought process behind wasting significant money on pitchers of the Lynn/Gibson caliber. If you can't call up a pitcher from the minors to put up innings with a 5+ ERA then your minor leagues are a miserable failure. Why not spend a little more to get something that you have a decent chance to get a quality performance out of & fill in the "replacement level" players from the minors for low salary. It's something they constantly do, like paying Corey Dickerson $5 million when he'd had an OPS in the low .700's for 2 seasons. You should have been able to use a minor leaguer for the minimum salary to post a sub .700 OPS & spent the remainder to get an actual good player.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by bdj23

That's kinda what i was getting at. I'd take a Wacha reunion over Matz or Lynn

You'll watch Matz and like it or you aren't a real part of the BFIB!

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

I just don't understand the thought process behind wasting significant money on pitchers of the Lynn/Gibson caliber. If you can't call up a pitcher from the minors to put up innings with a 5+ ERA then your minor leagues are a miserable failure. Why not spend a little more to get something that you have a decent chance to get a quality performance out of & fill in the "replacement level" players from the minors for low salary. It's something they constantly do, like paying Corey Dickerson $5 million when he'd had an OPS in the low .700's for 2 seasons. You should have been able to use a minor leaguer for the minimum salary to post a sub .700 OPS & spent the remainder to get an actual good player.

Because calling up a guy to fill a gaping hole with sub par play doesn't keep dummies going to games 3 million times a year. They get enough guys people have heard of for low cost and people keep showing up because "They tried" but player X just got hurt or player Y under performed.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

I just don't understand the thought process behind wasting significant money on pitchers of the Lynn/Gibson caliber. If you can't call up a pitcher from the minors to put up innings with a 5+ ERA then your minor leagues are a miserable failure. Why not spend a little more to get something that you have a decent chance to get a quality performance out of & fill in the "replacement level" players from the minors for low salary. It's something they constantly do, like paying Corey Dickerson $5 million when he'd had an OPS in the low .700's for 2 seasons. You should have been able to use a minor leaguer for the minimum salary to post a sub .700 OPS & spent the remainder to get an actual good player.

Cheap bullet catchers. That's all.

Grist for the mill; meat for the grinder. In a way it's a positive development in that they're NOT doing anything stupid to save Mozeliak's job in a short-term push for relevance.

No, they're all but acknowledging that the 2024 Cardinals aren't going to win anything and never were going to.

Now the counterpoint to that is if this team actually believed that, they'd trade Goldschmidt rather than enter into extension talks with him.

A combination of these two things really only yields one conclusion - they're just stupid. Or they think we are. Frankly it's probably a bit of both.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

I just don't understand the thought process behind wasting significant money on pitchers of the Lynn/Gibson caliber. If you can't call up a pitcher from the minors to put up innings with a 5+ ERA then your minor leagues are a miserable failure. Why not spend a little more to get something that you have a decent chance to get a quality performance out of & fill in the "replacement level" players from the minors for low salary. It's something they constantly do, like paying Corey Dickerson $5 million when he'd had an OPS in the low .700's for 2 seasons. You should have been able to use a minor leaguer for the minimum salary to post a sub .700 OPS & spent the remainder to get an actual good player.

Lynn might be completely shot, I agree.

Gibson is an actual mid-to-end of rotation starter who can eat innings and I'm not sure the Cardinals currently have someone in Memphis who can do that yet. Additionally, with how the contracts are set up for Gibson, Lynn, Gray, Mikolas, and Matz, they're likely looking at a combination of someone developing from the minors and additional acquisitions via trade or FA to replace them in the rotation. With how the contracts are structured, this also lessens the $ commitment/opens up roster spots.

[bdj23]

Can glorious leader Kim just ****ing nuke Dodger Stadium already

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by bdj23

Can glorious leader Kim just ****ing nuke Dodger Stadium already

Yup. Even if they choke in the playoffs for the next 10 years it’s bad for baseball.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Payroll nearing 300 million

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by bdj23

Can glorious leader Kim just ****ing nuke Dodger Stadium already

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

Yup. Even if they choke in the playoffs for the next 10 years it’s bad for baseball.

One team spending a billion $'s on 2 players is not good for baseball.

[bdj23]

I just hope they continue to be choke artists but they've finally thrown enough money around that a few titles are probably inevitable. It will be like the 90s yankees all over again.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

One team spending a billion $'s on 2 players is not good for baseball.

I'm curious what is the reason?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

One team spending a billion $'s on 2 players is not good for baseball.

It's a lot better than a dozen teams spending less than $100 million on 26 players.

The issue is as much (more) teams crying poor than it is teams like the Dodgers being willing to spend.

The money is in the system. Plenty of it, in fact. 80% of the teams in baseball should be spending more than they are, IMO. The Cardinals chief among them - second only to the Orioles with Peter Angelos sitting on a potential pennant winner but refusing to add pitching (and acting galled when the possibility is discussed).

This is one where I have to agree with Boras. The question isn't why some teams are willing to spend $30 million on a potential top of the rotation starter - it's why more teams AREN'T willing to do so.

[bdj23]

Originally Posted by jd1020

I'm curious what is the reason?

Because Mo has the keys to the safe of our franchise, that's why, if it was the Cardinals spending like this i wouldn't care one bit.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's a lot better than a dozen teams spending less than $100 million on 26 players.

The issue is as much (more) teams crying poor than it is teams like the Dodgers being willing to spend.

The money is in the system. Plenty of it, in fact. 80% of the teams in baseball should be spending more than they are, IMO. The Cardinals chief among them - second only to the Orioles with Peter Angelos sitting on a potential pennant winner but refusing to add pitching (and acting galled when the possibility is discussed).

This is one where I have to agree with Boras. The question isn't why some teams are willing to spend $30 million on a potential top of the rotation starter - it's why more teams AREN'T willing to do so.

I agree all the owners have more money to spend that they are. But..... Why don't they? Why no pressure?

Look at the NFL. They didn't just put a cap on how much a team can spend, they put a floor too. That's the only reason some of the NFL owners aren't hoarding and pocketing more profits.

We all agree Dewitt can spend more, a lot more. He is a billionaire pocketing cash made off the team instead of putting that money into players. But even if he did, he cant match what the Yankees and Dodgers could offer a player. A cap and floor is what baseball needs to move forward.

90% of the baseball fans left only cheer or watch their teams games. Baseball is slowly dying. I understand that we would lose a season, at least, if the owners played hardball to get a cap and floor in place. I hate that option and have no hope whatsoever it ever happens but thats what its going to take.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This is one where I have to agree with Boras. The question isn't why some teams are willing to spend $30 million on a potential top of the rotation starter - it's why more teams AREN'T willing to do so.

The biggest problem isn't necessarily the salaries. The guys who get the big bucks normally **** a team over because they are on the wrong side of the age gap. Baseball you don't get paid in your prime unless you get called up when your 21. Most get to the bigs at what 24/25. 6 arbitration years. You are 31/32 when you get the big deal. You might have a year or two worth then you suck ass for the most part. Royals got lucky that Hosmer turned their offer down because he would be classic example. Lorenzo Cain is a better one, because he got paid by Milwaukee. Had one good year then broke dick. Until MLBPA decides to get younger players paid instead of old stiff dicks, it really won't matter.