Replacing both our AC units! Brand question.

[lewdog]

Lots of badass help on CP for these home maintenance things!

Replacing our 2.5 and 3.5 ton Carrier AC systems that are 18 years old.

Have had similar quotes for Carrier and Lennox brands. Recommendations on these brands? Other brands to look at or avoid?

[Buehler445]

Paging Bugeater.

[Peter Gibbons]

This may not be a popular opinion but I find the name on the installers truck to be much more important than the name on the equipment. In my experience, most brands have fairly similar offerings so as long as you stay with the big names (Carrier, Trane, Lennox, Bryant, etc) you’ll be fine. Setup and installation is not a simple plug and play and a good installer will insure you have a good delta T across your coil with the appropriate air flow. A good installer will make almost any system work well and a bad installer will make a good system perform poorly.

All that being said, I installed two new Trane units last year and they have been fantastic. However, if my preferred installer had been selling other reputable brands instead I would not have hesitated at all to buy them instead.

[scho63]

Trane

[Stewie]

I had a Heil HVAC unit installed in 2006. It's been stellar. The only thing that crapped out was a cap on the a/c unit. That's it! Never had to add an ounce of freon to the a/c unit.

Maybe I've been lucky, but I had a great installer. That matters a hell of a lot.

Heil is owned by United technologies which owns Carrier among other brands.

[RedRaider56]

I replaced one of my old Carrier Systems with a new Carrier System last summer and the thing has been great except.......for their Infinity thermostat. The installer had to replace it twice in the 1st 3 weeks due to issues.

Once they got the 3rd one installed, the system has worked like a champ.

[Why Not?]

Just go with a swamp cooler.

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by Stewie

I had a Heil HVAC unit installed in 2006. It's been stellar. The only thing that crapped out was a cap on the a/c unit. That's it! Never had to add an ounce of freon to the a/c unit.

Maybe I've been lucky, but I had a great installer. That matters a hell of a lot.

Heil is owned by United technologies which owns Carrier among other brands.

This all the way.

I like Carrier myself and I'd consider one of their systems. They're generally long lasting and reliable, but they have a lot of brand specific parts so when they do have problems they tend to be more expensive to repair. Lennox is the same way...I'd lean towards Carrier over them only because I haven't had much direct experience with Lennox. Rheem and Goodman are a couple good budget options as well.

But yes, get references and check them twice...like anything else, there's plenty of shady contractors out there.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

This all the way.

I like Carrier myself and I'd consider one of their systems. They're generally long lasting and reliable, but they have a lot of brand specific parts so when they do have problems they tend to be more expensive to repair. Lennox is the same way...I'd lean towards Carrier over them only because I haven't had much direct experience with Lennox. Rheem and Goodman are a couple good budget options as well.

But yes, get references and check them twice...like anything else, there's plenty of shady contractors out there.

I love you more than I care to admit on a forum of macho men and alpha males.

Two quotes and companies we’ve liked so far.

Carrier company has been a local Phoenix company for over 40 years, good reputation. Parts and compressor 10 year warranty. 2.5 and 3.5 ton units for $13.3k. We currently have 18 year old Carrier units and they’ve been solid.

Lennox company is locally owned but only been in business 10 years but good reputation too. They tout the best warranty in Phoenix. $700 more than the carrier quote and includes 10 years parts/compressor warranty but also includes 10 years annual maintenance checks and $100 deductible on labor out to 10 years. Also they will include full duct cleaning and sanitizing if we replace both units at the same time. They just replaced our friends AC unit and they were very satisfied. 3 ton and 4 ton units for $14k.

[displacedinMN]

We had a lennox in the old house and a great installer. I think the installer and post installation service was the key.

[Chief Roundup]

I would not go with Lennox. Carrier is a tried and true brand.

[Eureka]

Originally Posted by Peter Gibbons

This may not be a popular opinion but I find the name on the installers truck to be much more important than the name on the equipment. In my experience, most brands have fairly similar offerings so as long as you stay with the big names (Carrier, Trane, Lennox, Bryant, etc) you’ll be fine. Setup and installation is not a simple plug and play and a good installer will insure you have a good delta T across your coil with the appropriate air flow. A good installer will make almost any system work well and a bad installer will make a good system perform poorly.

All that being said, I installed two new Trane units last year and they have been fantastic. However, if my preferred installer had been selling other reputable brands instead I would not have hesitated at all to buy them instead.

This is great info. I've been on calls where I'm thinking WhoTF installed this.

[eDave]

Originally Posted by lewdog

I love you more than I care to admit on a forum of macho men and alpha males.

Two quotes and companies we’ve liked so far.

Carrier company has been a local Phoenix company for over 40 years, good reputation. Parts and compressor 10 year warranty. 2.5 and 3.5 ton units for $13.3k. We currently have 18 year old Carrier units and they’ve been solid.

Lennox company is locally owned but only been in business 10 years but good reputation too. They tout the best warranty in Phoenix. $700 more than the carrier quote and includes 10 years parts/compressor warranty but also includes 10 years annual maintenance checks and $100 deductible on labor out to 10 years. Also they will include full duct cleaning and sanitizing if we replace both units at the same time. They just replaced our friends AC unit and they were very satisfied. 3 ton and 4 ton units for $14k.

Learning that the installer is key is awesome. I wonder, given Phoenix, if installation is just thought of more. Our AC's take a pounding.

[Peter Gibbons]

Originally Posted by lewdog

I love you more than I care to admit on a forum of macho men and alpha males.

Two quotes and companies we’ve liked so far.

Carrier company has been a local Phoenix company for over 40 years, good reputation. Parts and compressor 10 year warranty. 2.5 and 3.5 ton units for $13.3k. We currently have 18 year old Carrier units and they’ve been solid.

Lennox company is locally owned but only been in business 10 years but good reputation too. They tout the best warranty in Phoenix. $700 more than the carrier quote and includes 10 years parts/compressor warranty but also includes 10 years annual maintenance checks and $100 deductible on labor out to 10 years. Also they will include full duct cleaning and sanitizing if we replace both units at the same time. They just replaced our friends AC unit and they were very satisfied. 3 ton and 4 ton units for $14k.

How did the estimators determine what size units were needed? Did they simply just offer to install the same size equipment that you already have or did they do a “manual J” calculation to calculate the required cooling loads? Did they inspect the ductwork and airflow at each register in every room? I would want to understand in detail how they arrived at your system sizing, ductwork modifications and the details of the coil and condenser SEER. Also, it’s good to understand what temp they are protecting for for max outdoor temperature in their calculations. When you ask these types of details from your estimators you will begin to get a good feel for how much science vs guessing each is doing.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by Peter Gibbons

How did the estimators determine what size units were needed? Did they simply just offer to install the same size equipment that you already have or did they do a “manual J” calculation to calculate the required cooling loads? Did they inspect the ductwork and airflow at each register in every room? I would want to understand in detail how they arrived at your system sizing, ductwork modifications and the details of the coil and condenser SEER. Also, it’s good to understand what temp they are protecting for for max outdoor temperature in their calculations. When you ask these types of details from your estimators you will begin to get a good feel for how much science vs guessing each is doing.

I wasn't home for the quotes but my wife had some questions I asked her to discuss.

SEER rating doesn't mean much in Phoenix since the humidity is so low. It's basically useless here and I do know that. Both of these installers gave us quotes for 14 and 16 SEER units and both actually recommended the 14 SEER units given how much solar power we generate. Based on my research I knew this was true, so I was impressed neither tried to up sell me on a higher SEER like another company tried to do.

I know the Carrier quote the guy just matched the current system size. The Lennox quote came from looking at our duct work, vents and how the house currently cools (our master bedroom and one of the front bedrooms have never cooled as well as other rooms) and he recommended we bump up each unit .5 tons to a 3 and 4 instead of the current 2.5 and 3.5.