It’s official: Pats were always Tom Brady. Not Bill Belichick.

[Prison Bitch]

Bill falls to 2-4 without Brady.

Brady goes to 5-2 with Tampa, turning them into a title contender immediately.

Tampa had the #1 SRS (points above avg team) in the NFL of +13.1. And that was before they trashed the Fighting Chuckies today.

[MahomesMagic]

Belichick is correct. That's what you do to win Super Bowls. I see plenty of teams that never do jack and only talk about the future. The Patriots went all in and it worked.

We will have to do the same thing. There will be periods where we have to offload good players and get cheaper and hope for the best. That's the salary cap and NFL parity.

[Red Dawg]

Sick of hearing how great Brady is. He's had twice the advantages of any QB before him.
Never a bad OL
Top 10 defense every year.
One system, one coach.
HC that cheated to help him.
He cheated and won himself.
Pathedicly bad division
Refs in his pocket.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by kccrow

The fact he got handed the keys to a playoff-ready team now doesn't make the Patriots dynasty more about Tom, and it seems the Pats' lack of success this year comparatively is skewing people's opinions rather significantly.

For me, this year has absolutely zero to do with it. I don't care what Brady is doing in Tampa nor do I care how bad the Patriots are without him.

QB's drive the NFL.

I've said this for 20 years on CP and I'm not going to change now.

QB's are the cake.

Coaches are the frosting.

[Godzalez]

I don't think Belichick is a bad coach like some are implying. It's his bad GMing and particularly his bad drafting in recent years that is really sinking them. They have nothing at the skill positions on offense and most importantly they have no QB. You went from a franchise QB to three guys who really shouldn't even be in the NFL. You don't win without a QB. It doesn't matter how good of a coach you are.

[morphius]

Other than when Brady had Welker and Moss, has he really had any WR talent and a long list of mediocre/end of career running backs? You can toss in Gronk if you want to, but he never seemed to be healthy, as well as most their other WR's. To discount Brady's importance to that offense/team is silly. Belichick is good, can generally scheme a defense to take away your one guy, gets a lot out of guys with raw talent, etc, etc. But having a guy that can keep drives going is huge for the defense.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

For me, this year has absolutely zero to do with it. I don't care what Brady is doing in Tampa nor do I care how bad the Patriots are without him.

QB's drive the NFL.

I've said this for 20 years on CP and I'm not going to change now.

QB's are the cake.

Coaches are the frosting.

I agree that QBs do drive the NFL to a large extent but I'd say you have your analogy ass backwards.

I'd argue Coaches are the cake, providing the foundation and schemes for success and you can get at least a sweet tasting bread from the deal.

That said, a good QB is the frosting that's going to take that sweet tasting bread over the top and make it a delectable dessert. A good QB is going to make a team a contender and give a good foundation the ability to win Super Bowls.

There are plenty of examples of good quarterbacks that don't have good foundations to work with, a case in point would be Matt Ryan. Usually a very good QB with good weapons around him, but the defense and much of the foundation of the rest of the team is always severely lacking. You put Matt Ryan in place of Tom Brady on the Pats all these years and I would say you'd have seen similar success. I'd think Matt Stafford could have had some very good success there, etc.

Tom Brady was a good QB that can put a team over the top. We know how that story goes here in KC with years of good o-lines, good running backs, good defenses, and lacking the QB to get to the finish line. You have to have a good coach, GM, and QB in the NFL. Bill has traditionally been an exceptional coach with the ability to be the GM that put the foundation around his good QB to maintain success. No realistic successor to Brady is killing that team right now, but its not like he doesn't know that.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

The rest of the AFC East really hate NE. The Bills give the Chiefs Mahomes. The Dolphins give the Chiefs the bye. The Jets, the poor bastards. Don't have much, but they trying

[Eureka]

Bill has a down turn during a very different/strange year due to covid. I'm guessing he's going to come back stronger than ever next year.

What he needs is a QB first. Maybe, he swings a trade for Ryan or Stafford to get his team going again. He's got to do something and he most likely will reload.

Sort of like the Warriors.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by morphius

Other than when Brady had Welker and Moss, has he really had any WR talent and a long list of mediocre/end of career running backs? You can toss in Gronk if you want to, but he never seemed to be healthy, as well as most their other WR's. To discount Brady's importance to that offense/team is silly. Belichick is good, can generally scheme a defense to take away your one guy, gets a lot out of guys with raw talent, etc, etc. But having a guy that can keep drives going is huge for the defense.

He's had some good players, even going back to the Deion Branch, Troy Brown days. Throw in Moss, Welker, Edelman, Gronk, Aaron Hernandez. Their RB stable has typically always been plus even without big names (they've been ahead of the curve there for over a decade). His OLs and defenses have typically been very good as well.

I think Brady can probably take the largest amount of credit for the Patriot's dynasty, but he's had a shit ton of help- more than any other QB that I can think of off the top of my head.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Eureka

Bill has a down turn during a very different/strange year due to covid. I'm guessing he's going to come back stronger than ever next year.

What he needs is a QB first. Maybe, he swings a trade for Ryan or Stafford to get his team going again. He's got to do something and he most likely will reload.

Sort of like the Warriors.

What in his history do you base this statement off of? He has two winning seasons and one playoff appearance total without Brady. He has an overall losing record without Brady under center.

[morphius]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

He's had some good players, even going back to the Deion Branch, Troy Brown days. Throw in Moss, Welker, Edelman, Gronk, Aaron Hernandez. Their RB stable has typically always been plus even without big names (they've been ahead of the curve there for over a decade). His OLs and defenses have typically been very good as well.

I think Brady can probably take the largest amount of credit for the Patriot's dynasty, but he's had a shit ton of help- more than any other QB that I can think of off the top of my head.

If I remember a lot of the WR's he made look good never were able to have any success after they left, including Branch.

[Eureka]

Originally Posted by tredadda

What in his history do you base this statement off of? He has two winning seasons and one playoff appearance total without Brady. He has an overall losing record without Brady under center.

His overall losing record you speak of is over 20 years ago. I'm sure he's learned a lot over that span and also he will learn from this year. The loss of so many starters on that team right before the season started was to much for the organization to overcome this year.

The bottom line though is he needs a QB under center that can perform. Bill isn't some miracle worker but if he can get a good QB he can sure as heck coach them up. If he can get this position upgraded, starters returning after covid, and some top of the round draft picks he certainly has a chance to turn things around next year.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by morphius

If I remember a lot of the WR's he made look good never were able to have any success after they left, including Branch.

Yeah, that is true but that happens often in the NFL. Most people forget that the average NFL career is just 3 years. It’s difficult to remain good or great for an extended period of time. Typically any good franchise will keep you around until you’re past your prime and then let you go so it’s not strange when a guy is unable to match his previous success in a new place.

We saw that with some WRs who left NE and others who ended up in NE (like Chad Johnson and Sanu).

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Yeah, that is true but that happens often in the NFL. Most people forget that the average NFL career is just 3 years. It’s difficult to remain good or great for an extended period of time. Typically any good franchise will keep you around until you’re past your prime and then let you go so it’s not strange when a guy is unable to match his previous success in a new place.

We saw that with some WRs who left NE and others who ended up in NE (like Chad Johnson and Sanu).

Branch was doing fine until he was hurt.

[Megatron96]

If all it took was a really good or great QB, Dan Marino would have multiple rings.

Fran Tarkenton would have multiple rings.

Dan Fouts would have a ring.

Warren Moon would have multiple rings.

Steve McNair would have a ring.

Aaron Rodgers would have multiple rings.

And there are plenty of really average QBs that have rings. Like Jeff Hostetler. Phil Simms. NICK FOLES.

Trent freaking Dilfer.

And about another dozen of these kinds of JAGs.

And let's not forget that Tom Brady didn't exactly light the NFL on fire for his first few years. As good as that Patriots team was outside of QB, you could've put any JAG QB behind center and won a ring.