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Old 06-30-2020, 07:59 PM  
Dante84 Dante84 is offline
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Chris Jones threatens to Hold Out
Well shit.




UPDATE 7/12/20: Things are looking good!






UPDATE 7/14: Looks Done!

Last edited by Dante84; 07-14-2020 at 11:28 AM..
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:54 PM   #166
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Meh. It's time we stop being scared of moving guys around in the conference.

All NFL teams have to occasionally let guys walk or release/cut them. Sometimes they wind up with our own division rivals. Sometimes their cuts wind up on our rosters. It's nothing new.

We're not even talking in-division, here. We're talking in-conference. If we traded LDT to the Dolphins is it that much worse than him signing with the Dolphins after we cut him?
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:56 PM   #167
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I disagree, and I've been disagreeing with this mindset all offseason. Hell, probably before this offseason.

If healthy, Mahomes will get you in the playoffs. Every. Single. Year. Shitty defense? If he has enough weapons he'll still take you to the AFC Championship and just about win the ****ing thing. No running game? Still won a Super Bowl. Month-plus injuries to his top speed WR, LT, all while the defense had a billion new starters attempting to work through a new defense and new coaches? 12-4 and a 2 seed (and an eventual Super Bowl).

We're not the Kansas City Royals. We don't play baseball. We don't need to stock up and sell the farm once every 8-10 years and be mired in mediocrity the rest of the time. Our "down" years are still playoff years, and even in some of those "down" years we can't be counted out to make a magical run if things gel just right.

The idea of striking while the iron is hot is a bit irresponsible, because I'd rather have a decent chance at winning a Super Bowl into the extension years of Mahomes' career than trying to go all in now but have to look like the Seattle Seahawks after Russell's big money deal.

Going for all the marbles in a particular year is great and all, but if you miss on that opportunity (and it does happen-- it's the NFL) THAT'S how guys like Aaron Rodgers get their careers wasted.
So you would rather substantially lower our odds to repeat This year- to hopefully, increase our odds down the road? not me- I think we will win it again this year.

A lot of the guys came back on 1 year deals with Sammy taking a pay cut. So it is not like Veech pushed all of his chips in and completely mortgaged our future this offseason. Plus he brought in a lot of cheap talent- that will replace older / overpaid players in the coming seasons.

You can say he did that to some degree with bringing in Clark and Honey Badger. But would you rather be loaded in cap space not having these guys or a SB ring? In 10 years nobody cares how much cap space we had the last year-but will remember our SB forever.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:57 PM   #168
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So you would rather substantially lower our odds to repeat This year- to hopefully, increase our odds down the road? not me- I think we will win it again this year.

A lot of the guys came back on 1 year deals with Sammy taking a pay cut. So it is not like Veech pushed all of his chips in and completely mortgaged our future this offseason. Plus he brought in a lot of cheap talent- that will replace older / overpaid players in the coming seasons.

You can say he did that to some degree with bringing in Clark and Honey Badger. But would you rather be loaded in cap space not having these guys or a SB ring? In 10 years nobody cares how much cap space we had the last year-but will remember our SB forever.
If Jones chooses to hold out and we've swapped Jones for LDT, Watkins and Sorensen, we will have 'substantially lowered our odds' THIS season, IMO.

And definitely in subsequent seasons.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:57 PM   #169
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Greatest coach/QB combination in history failed to win the Super Bowl more than half the time they were together.

Having the best team or talent STILL doesn't guarantee dick.

I'll trade a year w/ a 50% shot at a SB for 2 years w/ a 40% shot at the SB every time. Gimme more bites at the apple over fewer larger bites. Sure, there's a bit of a gambler's fallacy issue there, but we have the ultimate force multiplier under center. By any reasonable measure the Chiefs should've lost that SB but then Mahomes did Mahomes shit and that was all she wrote.

That possibility will be there. So I don't feel any desperate need to push my chips into the center.
But that strategy was exactly what Veach tried to do. Keep everybody so the team would have one 50% shot instead of two 40% shots. And you said it was a bit of a shortsighted strategy.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:03 PM   #170
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But that strategy was exactly what Veach tried to do. Keep everybody so the team would have one 50% shot instead of two 40% shots. And you said it was a bit of a shortsighted strategy.
I agree?

Again - I don't LIKE what Veach did here. My point is that I'd take multiple shots over a single more likely shot every time.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm saying that the NFL is so beholden to random chance that over any meaningful timeline, your outcomes will be better if you pursue a more balanced approach.

Now as to last season - I kinda get that one and I'll defend it. The Chiefs hadn't won a SB in 5 decades and seemed to be cursed. They'd knocked on the door the year before and it was time to kick that ****er in. Go ahead and make some aggressive moves then.

But now it's done. The championship is won, the curse is lifted and any potential of the "Can't win the big one" for Mahomes is gone, as is the 'greatest coach without a title' crap for Andy. All of that pressure is gone.

So with that being lifted, it was time to take a more measured long-term approach rather than continue to keep the pedal down, IMO.

The 'run it back' drive is admirable and defensible. Going back to back puts you in a different, special tier. But ultimately even THAT is hindered by the fact that Jones now appears to be unwilling to play on the tag.

Which gets back to where I was on the Buckner trade thing - I just feel like perhaps Veach mis-read the room w/r/t Jones here.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:09 PM   #171
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If Jones chooses to hold out and we've swapped Jones for LDT, Watkins and Sorensen, we will have 'substantially lowered our odds' THIS season, IMO.

And definitely in subsequent seasons.
It seems this is a chicken and egg scenario.

If we would have cut LDT, Watkins and Sorensen- all solid guys - we would have taken a cap hit and possibly not have replacements this year. This Lowers our odds this year.

You sign Jones- who you stated before- misses his run assignments- to one of the highest contracts in chiefs history. It Helps our odds this year, while also eliminating cap flexibility in the future- which could Lower our odds.

Isn't going all in on Jones with a Mega contract- going "all In'?
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:53 PM   #172
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:59 PM   #173
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WHAT A MORAN!
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Old 07-01-2020, 09:50 PM   #174
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Again, I’m being a homer, but people are writing off the massive leap that Khalen Saunders could see in productivity this year. He’s gonna be a hell of a good player. Maybe not as good as Jones, but still a pretty good starter
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Old 07-01-2020, 10:12 PM   #175
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People here seriously undervalue Jones. We don’t win the Super Bowl Without him. He is the ever player on this defense. He makes everything work. He is definitely worth 20 mil a year.
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Old 07-02-2020, 01:34 AM   #176
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WHAT A MORAN!
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An unmarried Maasai or Samburu warrior.


Dude needs to get hitched.
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Old 07-02-2020, 06:00 AM   #177
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People here seriously undervalue Jones. We don’t win the Super Bowl Without him. He is the ever player on this defense. He makes everything work. He is definitely worth 20 mil a year.
Jones was also great in the playoffs against the Texans and helping come back from being behind 24 points.................................


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Old 07-02-2020, 06:30 AM   #178
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Bottom line is we cant keep everyone.

I think that Chris Jones is going to be the first of many going forward.
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Old 07-02-2020, 06:33 AM   #179
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Jones isn’t gonna sit out

He’ll eventually show up
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Old 07-02-2020, 06:58 AM   #180
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Keeping over 20 starters in this screwed up off season where draft picks and newly added players are getting "virtual" reps instead of real practice time sets them up for this fall better than any other team. It takes a lot less time to knock off the rust than to learn a whole new system. If CJ wants to increase his earnings the smart thing is to play his ass off for 16mil this year and bank 22-25mil per next year. A 2nd ring and a great year and he might be the #1 interior DL in people's eyes after next year.
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