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Old 06-30-2020, 07:59 PM  
Dante84 Dante84 is offline
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Chris Jones threatens to Hold Out
Well shit.




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Last edited by Dante84; 07-14-2020 at 11:28 AM..
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Old 07-01-2020, 03:47 PM   #151
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You know how you make 2021 and 2022 more palatable?

Through creating roughly $24 million in cap rollover by walking away from Watkins, LDT and Sorensen.

You're right - we don't need them off the books to fit Jones this season. We needed them off the books to create enough rollover to fit Jones under the cap NEXT season.

Its honestly the same thing that should've been considered with Hitchens. You bite the bullet, take his cap hit this season, and clean $11 million off the books for next season.

Veach went all in on the 'run it back' campaign and I think it was extremely shortsighted. I think he should've used the good will created by the championship, not to mention the final relatively cheap year of Mahomes deal, to use this season to clean the books of some lousy contracts, create substantial rollover for next season and then have a leaned out, more cost effective roster for 2021 and beyond when Mahomes starts to get more expensive.
It took 50 years since our last championship to win and now we are favored to go back-to-back. We have a great team- why get rid of guys that contributed to winning just for cap space?

You strike while the iron is hot. This year is different, teams will not have much time to gel and we will be bringing back a championship team mostly intact. I like the strategy.
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Old 07-01-2020, 03:51 PM   #152
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It took 50 years since our last championship to win and now we are favored to go back-to-back. We have a great team- why get rid of guys that contributed to winning just for cap space?

You strike while the iron is hot. This year is different, teams will not have much time to gel and we will be bringing back a championship team mostly intact. I like the strategy.
Because 'cap space' = talent. The former is required to retain the latter.

It's not 'just for cap space' it's for 'Chris Jones'.

Chris Jones will be more important to this team over the next 1-5 years than Watkins, Sorensen and LDT combined.
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Old 07-01-2020, 03:54 PM   #153
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You have a better chance of running it back having Jones instead of Watkins, LDT and Sorenson.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:09 PM   #154
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Because 'cap space' = talent. The former is required to retain the latter.

It's not 'just for cap space' it's for 'Chris Jones'.

Chris Jones will be more important to this team over the next 1-5 years than Watkins, Sorensen and LDT combined.
I am sure if the Chiefs felt they had a good replacements for Hitchens, LDT, Sorensen and Sammy- they would have swallowed the cap hit, but they didn't. These guys are over-paid but not scrubs.

The way it stands, we still have them and also Jones if he will lower himself to play for another ring for a measly 16 million bucks. This team is loaded.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:12 PM   #155
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I am sure if the Chiefs felt they had a good replacements for Hitchens, LDT, Sorensen and Sammy- they would have swallowed the cap hit, but they didn't. These guys are over-paid but not scrubs.

The way it stands, we still have them and also Jones if he will lower himself to play for another ring for a measly 16 million bucks. This team is loaded.
Hitchens would be the toughest pill, IMO.

Your position is that the Chiefs should continue to pay 4 different guys more than they're worth so that Chris Jones can take 75% of what HE'S worth on the open market?

You're essentially calling Chris Jones greedy for being unwilling to subsidize his teammates paychecks. In effect, JONES is the one that is overpaying for those guys because it's money he'd be getting but/for their inflated deals.

And that's...okay? You're cool with calling Jones greedy because he sees this team keeping guys around who aren't worth their checks while simultaneously telling him they aren't going to pay him what he'd otherwise be capable of earning?

That's odd...
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:27 PM   #156
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I love Chris.

If either Miami or Jacksonville are willing to offer both of their 2 1st rounders in the 2021 draft, you'd have to listen.

Imagine Veach having a draft with THREE 1st rounders, with 1 likely being top 10. Like, dear God.

That's the kind of move that sets us up (more than we already are) to be a 5 year dynasty with Pat at QB.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:32 PM   #157
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Hitchens would be the toughest pill, IMO.

Your position is that the Chiefs should continue to pay 4 different guys more than they're worth so that Chris Jones can take 75% of what HE'S worth on the open market?

You're essentially calling Chris Jones greedy for being unwilling to subsidize his teammates paychecks. In effect, JONES is the one that is overpaying for those guys because it's money he'd be getting but/for their inflated deals.

And that's...okay? You're cool with calling Jones greedy because he sees this team keeping guys around who aren't worth their checks while simultaneously telling him they aren't going to pay him what he'd otherwise be capable of earning?

That's odd...


When did I say Jones was greedy?

First, you say- I am "essentially" calling him greedy- then you double down on that and say I am "cool with it" .

It is not My position- this is what the Chiefs have decided to do. I only disagreed when you said Veech is shortsighted wanting to win another SB with this loaded team that has great chemistry instead of breaking them up for cap relief.

BTW I have always been on the Keep Jones bandwagon- but think it would be a horrible move if he holds out.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:33 PM   #158
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:36 PM   #159
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You have a better chance of running it back having Jones instead of Watkins, LDT and Sorenson.
Every year everyone wants to dump Sorenson yet every year the guy plays a big part in big games.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:36 PM   #160
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You have a better chance of running it back having Jones instead of Watkins, LDT and Sorenson.
I don't know about that. I'm not a huge Watkins guy but he always shows up in the playoffs and the offense is noticeably better w him on the field even when he isn't putting up big stats.

LDT and Sorenson are good role players.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:40 PM   #161
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Every year everyone wants to dump Sorenson yet every year the guy plays a big part in big games.


Yep, I was one of them until he balled out this year in huge games. He is a gamer and I will never say a bad word about him again. The guy gets it and is a tough, badass player.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:41 PM   #162
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I love Chris.

If either Miami or Jacksonville are willing to offer both of their 2 1st rounders in the 2021 draft, you'd have to listen.

Imagine Veach having a draft with THREE 1st rounders, with 1 likely being top 10. Like, dear God.

That's the kind of move that sets us up (more than we already are) to be a 5 year dynasty with Pat at QB.
That’s not happening.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:45 PM   #163
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It took 50 years since our last championship to win and now we are favored to go back-to-back. We have a great team- why get rid of guys that contributed to winning just for cap space?

You strike while the iron is hot. This year is different, teams will not have much time to gel and we will be bringing back a championship team mostly intact. I like the strategy.
I disagree, and I've been disagreeing with this mindset all offseason. Hell, probably before this offseason.

If healthy, Mahomes will get you in the playoffs. Every. Single. Year. Shitty defense? If he has enough weapons he'll still take you to the AFC Championship and just about win the ****ing thing. No running game? Still won a Super Bowl. Month-plus injuries to his top speed WR, LT, all while the defense had a billion new starters attempting to work through a new defense and new coaches? 12-4 and a 2 seed (and an eventual Super Bowl).

We're not the Kansas City Royals. We don't play baseball. We don't need to stock up and sell the farm once every 8-10 years and be mired in mediocrity the rest of the time. Our "down" years are still playoff years, and even in some of those "down" years we can't be counted out to make a magical run if things gel just right.

The idea of striking while the iron is hot is a bit irresponsible, because I'd rather have a decent chance at winning a Super Bowl into the extension years of Mahomes' career than trying to go all in now but have to look like the Seattle Seahawks after Russell's big money deal.

Going for all the marbles in a particular year is great and all, but if you miss on that opportunity (and it does happen-- it's the NFL) THAT'S how guys like Aaron Rodgers get their careers wasted.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:49 PM   #164
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That’s not happening.
Yeah, Jax is likely going to be picking top 3, and probably have their hearts set on Trevor Lawrence.

Miami, on the other hand, has an extra 2nd in 2021.

Round 1: Their own pick
Round 1: From Houston
Round 2: Own
Round 2: From Houston

I doubt we'd be eager to move him in the conference, and while I also doubt they'd part with both 1sts, I can envision a scenario where we get the earliest 1st and the earliest 2nd, which is less exciting.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:53 PM   #165
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I disagree, and I've been disagreeing with this mindset all offseason. Hell, probably before this offseason.

If healthy, Mahomes will get you in the playoffs. Every. Single. Year. Shitty defense? If he has enough weapons he'll still take you to the AFC Championship and just about win the ****ing thing. No running game? Still won a Super Bowl. Month-plus injuries to his top speed WR, LT, all while the defense had a billion new starters attempting to work through a new defense and new coaches? 12-4 and a 2 seed (and an eventual Super Bowl).

We're not the Kansas City Royals. We don't play baseball. We don't need to stock up and sell the farm once every 8-10 years and be mired in mediocrity the rest of the time. Our "down" years are still playoff years, and even in some of those "down" years we can't be counted out to make a magical run if things gel just right.

The idea of striking while the iron is hot is a bit irresponsible, because I'd rather have a decent chance at winning a Super Bowl into the extension years of Mahomes' career than trying to go all in now but have to look like the Seattle Seahawks after Russell's big money deal.

Going for all the marbles in a particular year is great and all, but if you miss on that opportunity (and it does happen-- it's the NFL) THAT'S how guys like Aaron Rodgers get their careers wasted.
Greatest coach/QB combination in history failed to win the Super Bowl more than half the time they were together.

Having the best team or talent STILL doesn't guarantee dick.

I'll trade a year w/ a 50% shot at a SB for 2 years w/ a 40% shot at the SB every time. Gimme more bites at the apple over fewer larger bites. Sure, there's a bit of a gambler's fallacy issue there, but we have the ultimate force multiplier under center. By any reasonable measure the Chiefs should've lost that SB but then Mahomes did Mahomes shit and that was all she wrote.

That possibility will be there. So I don't feel any desperate need to push my chips into the center.
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