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Old 03-29-2023, 08:39 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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***Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread ***
2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official

2023 Opening Day Lineup
Spoiler!

2022 Opening Day roster.
Spoiler!

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.
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Old 04-25-2023, 06:32 AM   #241
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Flaherty has looked better with each start. Montgomery has been stable. maybe Liberatore and trade for a #2 starter using some of of our outfield talent and we can compete and win a DLCS. Still going to need more to win a WS.
We don't have any outfield talent.
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Old 04-25-2023, 08:27 AM   #242
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We don't have any outfield talent.
The time to trade would have been after O'Neill's 2021 (34 hr, .912 OPS) season.

You can bet whoever he keeps will decline and whoever he trades will ascend and still we won't get back anything of value.
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Old 04-25-2023, 08:39 AM   #243
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We don't have any outfield talent.
When was the last time we had any? Matt Holliday? Cardinals outfield has been ragtag for almost a decade now. It's pathetic honestly.
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Old 04-25-2023, 09:52 AM   #244
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We don't have any outfield talent.
What Nootbar, TON, and Dylan Carlson don't get you excited?

Outfield is a disaster at this point, SS is a mess, and our 2 perennial All Stars look like they just started playing baseball.

What's hilarious is the best player on the team right now they like to bench several days a week because of imaginary splits that they have no history with.
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Old 04-25-2023, 10:03 AM   #245
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There has been no more evergreen myth than "The Cardinals Logjam in the Outfield"

For twenty five years we've been hearing about how we have too many good OFers to find playing time for them. And our OF has ALWAYS sucked in that period. The only time it hasn't was when they signed a veteran on his last legs like Berkman or Beltran, or when Ludwick came completely out of left field.

FFS, the STL Media tried to make it seems like a massive problem that we had to find ABs for Jon Jay and Pete Bourjos. That's the 'logjam' you'll hear from the BFIB.

We don't have three starting caliber OFers. Nootbaar is probably a credible starter. O'Neill has nothing but a hole in the hole in his swing. Carlson sucks and should be a platoon bat against lefties only. Walker can't play outfield, nor can Burleson or Yepez.

The minors don't have shit - our 2nd best OF prospect was Moises Gomez who the Rays simply let walks. And remember - if the Rays give up on a guy, he isn't good.

The St. Louis Cardinals have one of the 10 worst outfield situations in baseball and it's a tradition as old as time to pretend like they just have tooooo muuuuuch talent out there.
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Old 04-25-2023, 10:09 AM   #246
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The reason they've stayed out of the FA market is they've plowed so much capital into young SP that they pretty much have to ride or die with it.

Liberatore, Hence, Graceffo, Hjerpe and McGreevy are 5 of their top 6 prospects (with Winn as the other). And since Mozeliak has no idea who among them may actually be good, he's terrified that he'll block them.

So sure, he'll sign Mikolas to a 2 year extension because that's about how long it should take Hence to get to the big leagues and Mikolas might have been able to get 3 years if he pitched credibly and went to the FA market (he hasn't).

Every inexplicable decision becomes more understandable when you realize that John Mozeliak has no idea who will/will not actually be good at playing baseball. He's throwing darts out there. View it through that lens and even a completely idiotic decision like Mikolas at least has a reason behind it. And if/when Hence proves big league ready in 2 seasons, THAT'S when Mozeliak will come out and justify the Mikolas deal as a shorter term contract designed to prevent them from blocking Tink.

He's just completely incompetent.
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Old 04-25-2023, 11:15 AM   #247
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Flaherty has looked better with each start. Montgomery has been stable. maybe Liberatore and trade for a #2 starter using some of of our outfield talent and we can compete and win a DLCS. Still going to need more to win a WS.
Just out of curiosity, because everyone sees things through a different lense, who did you have in mind that could bring a credible starter in trade?
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Old 04-25-2023, 12:00 PM   #248
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Just out of curiosity, because everyone sees things through a different lense, who did you have in mind that could bring a credible starter in trade?
You could maybe get an Alex Cobb type for Dylan Carlson.

Then again, Alex Cobb just fired our asses into the sun so probably not.

But that's the kind of guy you're looking at; dudes in their mid 30s with decent track records and maybe one more year on their deal.

Maybe you could swap struggling 'change of scenery' candidates? If I could move Carlson for Kopech I'd do it, and I think Kopech probably sucks. But that's the best you'll get if you want youth.

Yepez might get you a relief pitcher or convince the Gnats to take on more of Corbin's contract just to get him off their roster.
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Old 04-25-2023, 12:10 PM   #249
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What do you think it will take to get O'Neil?
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Old 04-25-2023, 01:43 PM   #250
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I don’t know…every year I think they’re going to blow it out their ass, then they make the wc or maybe, possibly win the division, then get the shit blown out of them. Then mo himhaws around and talks out of his ass and then they do it all over again.
It’s like back when Carl Peterson was gm for the chiefs.
Scrape the whole damn front office…if the owner doesn’t want to compete, **** him. Forget them until they do.
That’s the cardinal way
sec
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Old 04-25-2023, 01:52 PM   #251
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What do you think it will take to get O'Neil?
He has one more year of team control after this one.

But he also brings about the easiest thing in the game to find - braindead righthanded power that gets eaten alive by quality pitching.

Those have value in the regular season over large enough sample sizes, but he brings the added concern of an injury history that suggests that his sample size is more likely to be 300 PAs than 600.

I mean, I don't figure he'd bring a ton. He's relatively inexpensive so maybe Oakland would be interested in a pump and dump scenario? Maybe James Kaprellian if they're tired of waiting on the prospect pedigree? Trevor May? They signed him to trade him anyway.

Tampa is always looking for RH power. The window on a deal for someone like Drew Rasmussen slammed shut - maybe Jalen Beeks? Toronto could move Varsho to CF; might be able to get Kikuchi for him? They'd flat out give you Jose Berrios if you'd take 80% of his salary off their books for the next 7 years. But shit, if you're willing to give slag like Miles Mikolas $20 million/season because he's alive and willing to sign, why not give Berrios $18 million/season until I'm damn near 50? He'll STILL be younger than Mikolas is today when his deal expires.
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Old 04-25-2023, 01:56 PM   #252
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****in ragarms
I don’t know…every year I think they’re going to blow it out their ass, then they make the wc or maybe, possibly win the division, then get the shit blown out of them. Then mo himhaws around and talks out of his ass and then they do it all over again.
It’s like back when Carl Peterson was gm for the chiefs.
Scrape the whole damn front office…if the owner doesn’t want to compete, **** him. Forget them until they do.
That’s the cardinal way
sec
What I don't understand is that a decade ago the Cardinals were WELL ahead of the curve on the velocity revolution. They were doing nothing but taking guys with big fastballs and good frames with the belief that the velocity would play even if the rest of the rough edges never fully rounded off.

By and large, it served them well.

They realized one year that they had one guy in the entire system (Isringhausen was the guy) who could throw 95+ and they set about completely changing their pitching approach.

Now they're back to having nobody that can throw 95 again and they're puzzled why the pitching is inconsistent as hell. Fellas, its because you have to be REALLY precise at 92 mph and you're asking guys who just aren't that good to pull that off.

I just don't understand how a team that is a few years removed from being able to throw 96 on top of 96 at teams is suddenly leaning on Gio Gallegos and Drew Verhagen to go out there and trick guys. Meanwhile Thompson throws 97 from the left side and gets mostly mopup duty.
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Old 04-25-2023, 04:28 PM   #253
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He has one more year of team control after this one.

But he also brings about the easiest thing in the game to find - braindead righthanded power that gets eaten alive by quality pitching.

Those have value in the regular season over large enough sample sizes, but he brings the added concern of an injury history that suggests that his sample size is more likely to be 300 PAs than 600.

I mean, I don't figure he'd bring a ton. He's relatively inexpensive so maybe Oakland would be interested in a pump and dump scenario? Maybe James Kaprellian if they're tired of waiting on the prospect pedigree? Trevor May? They signed him to trade him anyway.

Tampa is always looking for RH power. The window on a deal for someone like Drew Rasmussen slammed shut - maybe Jalen Beeks? Toronto could move Varsho to CF; might be able to get Kikuchi for him? They'd flat out give you Jose Berrios if you'd take 80% of his salary off their books for the next 7 years. But shit, if you're willing to give slag like Miles Mikolas $20 million/season because he's alive and willing to sign, why not give Berrios $18 million/season until I'm damn near 50? He'll STILL be younger than Mikolas is today when his deal expires.
I think he would be a perfect fit for the Royals. Big need for a right hand bat, cheap team control. Can play defense at Kauffman. Doesn't really block any prospects coming up.
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Old 04-25-2023, 04:42 PM   #254
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He has Kaufman power- he doesn't hit wall-scrapers.

Who you got?
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Old 04-25-2023, 05:03 PM   #255
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He has Kaufman power- he doesn't hit wall-scrapers.

Who you got?
I'm sure duncan would get you that. I just think its a move that makes sense for both teams.
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