Deshaun Watson is not a top 10 QB

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

In college you can have a great/elite QB and have a completely mediocre team, but how often does that same scenario happen in the NFL? How often do great QBs lead their NFL teams to a 3-4 win season? Hell even average to slightly above average QBs can win their team a handful of games.

Look at Matt Ryan, I'd put him in that great QB column and hes had a one 4 win season and one 6 win season in 13 years.

Matt Stafford since becoming the full time starter has only one 4 win season and one 6 win season.

Ryan Tannehill lowest win total was 6 while he was with the trash Dolphins and had to play the Patriots 2 times a season. He won 7 games or more in every other season with them.

Kirk Cousins started 3 seasons for the shit hole Washington Redskins and won 9, 8, and 7 games in those seasons he started.

Matt Schaub while with the Texans

07 4-7
08 6-5
09 9-7
10 6-10
11 7-3
12 12-4
13 2-6

In the NFL all you need is an average QB to not be completely terrible. Watson is on pace for 2 wins this season, but some of you wanna act like he's some great QB that's being held back by everyone. Great QBs don't have 2 win seasons no matter how bad the coaching or team is.

Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.

Drew brees was terrible in 2003.

Remember what happened that offseason?

The rest tend to be guys at the very beginning or end of their careers.

And even then, exceptions dont disprove a rule. Even if watson loses a bunch this year, I still think it's an exception to something overwhelmingly true in 2020.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.

Montana

1980 - 2nd season in league and not even full time starter. I'm not gonna count that record since he hadn't proven he could do anything and it takes time for some QBs to adjust.

1982 - 3 wins in 9 games is still more than Watson's 1 win. We will see how many he ends up with. To be fair Joe was injured in game 2. I'd be willing to bet he was playing injured in those last 7 games.

Brees

2003 - was his 3rd season in the league and was clearly not the QB he would become.

Namath

1976 - Was clearly way past his prime and it was his last year in NY. After the next season he retired.

Palmer - He had the Raiders at 4-5 in 2011, so I'm counting that as a win. So he had 4 wins in 2010 in his last year in Cinci and 4 wins in 2012 in his last year with Oakland. Clearly he was in the worst situation of pretty much all of these QBs.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

Montana

1980 - 2nd season in league and not even full time starter. I'm not gonna count that record since he hadn't proven he could do anything and it takes time for some QBs to adjust.

1982 - 3 wins in 9 games is still more than Watson's 1 win. We will see how many he ends up with. To be fair Joe was injured in game 2. I'd be willing to bet he was playing injured in those last 7 games.

Brees

2003 - was his 3rd season in the league and was clearly not the QB he would become.

Namath

1976 - Was clearly way past his prime and it was his last year in NY. After the next season he retired.

Palmer - He had the Raiders at 4-5 in 2011, so I'm counting that as a win. So he had 4 wins in 2010 in his last year in Cinci and 4 wins in 2012 in his last year with Oakland. Clearly he was in the worst situation of pretty much all of these QBs.

Hey, I’m not gonna disagree with you. My only point was is that there’s plenty of great quarterbacks out there that had a bad start to a season. And I’m not even saying that Watson is great. I do think he’s pretty good, and i believe that Billy never designed a really great offense around him. But I don’t believe that is a top-five quarterback.

I don’t think you’re giving him his due though when you say that you think Derek Carr is better than Watson. Because I can’t figure out how that’s possible. Watson is certainly tougher than Carr; he played a bunch of games while having a punctured lung, ffs. He doesn’t panic like Derek and start throwing interceptions all over the field. He’s obviously a lot more athletic and he can make throws from platforms that Derek can’t even imagine.

Id even have to say that he’s probably better than Tannehill as well. Obviously Tannehill is improved quite a bit since his days in Miami, or the end of the day he still kind of the same one dimensional quarterback. Because once you take away the run game and he can’t run play action, he’s kind of skittish in the pocket and he starts getting blinders and throwing footballs were they really shouldn’t go.

Watson doesn’t really do that. Again I’m not saying he’s great, but he’s got more talent and skills than Tannehill. Tannehill has to have a great running game, above average receivers, and a good defense, or he’s basically a league average quarterback.

Meanwhile, Watson’s been playing with a bad offense of line, a rotation of not great running backs, basically one offensive weapon, and aside from a decent pass rush, one of the worst defenses in the last 3-4 years. Yet in spite of all of that, he still managed to win 10 or 11 games a year, until 2020.

And in 2020 they started their season playing the defending Super Bowl champions in week one, The Baltimore ravens, the Steelers who ESPN has ranked as the best team in the NFL, the Vikings a playoff team from 2019, Tennessee a team that made it to the AFC conference game, And green bay the team that went to the NFC championship game. That has to be about the toughest schedule to open the season as I’ve seen in more than a decade.

[crayzkirk]

I've said more than once that behind every great QB is a coach ready to take the credit. I will also say that in the wrong environment, even a good QB will struggle. Watson is a good QB in a bad situation. He takes a lot of sacks; is the cause the offensive line, the play calling or his own inability to read the play quickly enough? I don't know. He seems to have a lot of the qualities that makes a good professional QB.

A bad coach can ruin a good QB while a great QB can make a bad coach look average.

[dlphg9]

Lol DeAndre Hopkins showing you all how he made Deshaun relevant and Deshaun showed you all that hes basically Alex Smith.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

Lol DeAndre Hopkins showing you all how he made Deshaun relevant and Deshaun showed you all that hes basically Alex Smith.

Watson is basically Alex Smith?

Never go full dlphg9 (reerun)

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Watson is basically Alex Smith?

Never go full dlphg9 (reerun)

He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.

Eh, Deshaun could have where Alex couldn't, IMO.

Deshaun is obviously a better athlete, certainly much faster and elusive than Alex. And he's more willing to go downfield.

And Alex made it to the AFCCG once, and should've won that game, if not for his overly cautious nature preventing him from taking shots downfield when he really needed to do so. And the same could be said of some of the Chiefs other playoff games with Alex at the helm.

The other way to look at it would be "if Deshaun had been the Chiefs QB in some of those playoff games and not Alex, would the Chiefs have had a better chance to win some of them?" and I think the answer is probably yes.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.

Alex Smith’s career year was his last in KC. Watson has topped his career year (easily on pace to before getting hurt as a rookie) every single year of his career including this one without Hopkins.

He’s not in the same conversation as Alex at all. He’s significantly better.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Alex Smith’s career year was his last in KC. Watson has topped his career year (easily on pace to before getting hurt as a rookie) every single year of his career including this one without Hopkins.

He’s not in the same conversation as Alex at all. He’s significantly better.

Stats are stats. It's about much more than that.

Watson is a borderline top 12 QB. Nothing more.

Last year, he was about 7th by all the metrics. In 2018, he was around 11 or 12th. This year, he's between 13th and 15th.

Watson is the 2nd-highest paid QB in the league. His cap hits in years 3 and 4 are actually HIGHER than Mahomes'. He isn't even CLOSE to being worth that.

So as I said before, Houston is stuck with him.

[RealSNR]

I hate this Colin Cowherd take he spouts all the time. "Deshaun Watson was Patrick Mahomes before Mahomes. Then he got hurt and the rest is history..."

That's like saying "Goran Dragic was Steph Curry before Steph Curry"

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

I hate this Colin Cowherd take he spouts all the time. "Deshaun Watson was Patrick Mahomes before Mahomes. Then he got hurt and the rest is history..."

That's like saying "Goran Dragic was Steph Curry before Steph Curry"

What Patrick does is far more sustainable than what Deshaun was doing his rookie year. We saw yesterday how much of an insane miracle worker Hopkins is. Freaking triple coverage and the dude comes down with the incredible TD catch, making Kyler Murray look good on a bad throw into coverage. Hopkins did this repeatedly for Deshaun during their time together in Houston.

You rarely see Mahomes getting bailed out by his receivers in that manner. Usually Patrick is throwing to open guys or making unbelievable throws that only his guys can catch. Sometimes his guys are open as a direct result of Patrick using his eyes to manipulate defenders and physical ability to throw no-look passes that other QB's cannot attempt.

[Deberg_1990]

Kyler Murray and Josh Allen have now surpassed Watson.