***Official 2024 STL Cardinals Thread ***

[BigRedChief]

I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its officially released.

2024 Opening Day roster.

Spoiler!

Our 2024 Opening Day roster is set!#ForTheLou pic.twitter.com/YdcaRqRVtz

— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) March 27, 2024

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

2023 thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=348136
2022 thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...8#post16877588
2021 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124
2020 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
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[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

The pitching development and decision making deserves to be criticized much more than the position players. Tommy Edman had a 6 WAR season and 2 other seasons above 3 WAR. That's insane.

I think Mo should be gone.

And they ****ing moved him to CF. So they could continue to try to force Gorman in at 2b when he's - maybe - a 3b. And in all likelihood a LFer.

They can't even take their Ws worth a damn.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

O'Neill will probably get hurt again this season. It's what he do. But I think a motivated O'Neill gives you All-Star caliber production when he's on the field and can probably give you 120-130 games.

And we traded him for nothing. Now he's killing it. And if he does repeat his 2019 season it will be the same excuse making from folks that it was for every other guy Mozeliak traded away for nothing to see excel elsewhere.

Because there's ALWAYS an excuse. After the first half dozen examples, maybe stop making them.

I'm not making excuses for MO, I want him fired 2 years ago, but TON isn't a hill to die on, I wanted him gone just like I wanted Flaherty gone.

And Flaherty looks like he is doing JF yo yo things in Detroit already.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And they ****ing moved him to CF. So they could continue to try to force Gorman in at 2b when he's - maybe - a 3b. And in all likelihood a LFer.

They can't even take their Ws worth a damn.

Not sure if I said it here or elsewhere, but I was wanting them to sign a CF to at least be able to platoon with Carlson or make it possible to have Walker play the OF less.

A Winn/Edman IF could be so lethal. Edman is probably my favorite Cardinal currently, though, and I argued 2 years ago that signing Contreras over Trea Turner would be a bigger upgrade to the team (and I still will die on that hill). Edman is super under appreciated.

I have no problem with playing Gorman at 2B, but the issue becomes WTF do you do with Walker. He isn't someone who should be in the OF. They should move on from Goldschmidt to make him room for him and allow Edman to be in the field more often as well as giving Gorman opportunities to DH more. But that won't happen.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I'm not making excuses for MO, I want him fired 2 years ago, but TON isn't a hill to die on, I wanted him gone just like I wanted Flaherty gone.

And Flaherty looks like he is doing JF yo yo things in Detroit already.

The only issue I have with Flaherty is the asswipe return they got from him from the most loaded farm system in recent memory.

Instead of getting 1 good prospect, they got 3 C- ones. 2 are fringe big leaguers at best and the third is faaaaaar away and a pitching prospect that's unlikely to pan out.

And for all the thoughts that "oh well he just didn't have much value" - the guy's value only went down in Baltimore. And he got $14 million in free agency. There was clearly some value there.

And we got slappy mcslaphitter with no defensive versatility, very possibly the worst starting pitcher I've ever seen (he's essentially Mike Maroth) and an 11th round draft pick with 30 professional innings under his belt.

We got 3 nickels instead of a dime. Because Mozeliak has no idea what the dimes actually are so he's gonna take his 3 nickels and throw them in a slot machine in the hopes one of them becomes that dime. Knowing full well that the odds overwhelmingly suggest they won't.

In lieu of insight and evaluation, he pursues volume and hopes for the best. Because he's ****ing awful at his job.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Not sure if I said it here or elsewhere, but I was wanting them to sign a CF to at least be able to platoon with Carlson or make it possible to have Walker play the OF less.

A Winn/Edman IF could be so lethal. Edman is probably my favorite Cardinal currently, though, and I argued 2 years ago that signing Contreras over Trea Turner would be a bigger upgrade to the team (and I still will die on that hill). Edman is super under appreciated.

I have no problem with playing Gorman at 2B, but the issue becomes WTF do you do with Walker. He isn't someone who should be in the OF. They should move on from Goldschmidt to make him room for him and allow Edman to be in the field more often as well as giving Gorman opportunities to DH more. But that won't happen.

Edman/Winn at the keystone would be one of the strongest up the middle defenses we've seen in 20 years. It would be unbelievable.

Gorman has the baseline athleticism to be a fine LFer. Shit, we're putting Burleson out there and I'm not convinced he ties his own shoes. Juan Yepez stumbled through.

The problem with Gorman is his lower half is stiff as hell. You can't be a viable 2b long-term that way. It's not ideal at 3b but it's manageable. You can get away with it okay in LF (and he'd at least have a plus arm out there).

Gorman at DH would force Donovan to...where? And frankly, Donovan's a better pure hitter by a fair bit. And he doesn't have the arm strength Gorman has. If you have Winn/Edman at SS/2b, you don't have a home for Donovan and this lineup needs him. He can/should be a more polished version of Craig.

So if you're married to Arenado long-term and won't deal him, then you need to put Gorman into LF so you can get Donovan the ABs at DH.

As for Walker - well, that guy should be in AAA. He's not a big league baseball player and if you continue to try to play his slice, his CEILING will be Stephen Piscotty. You can't do that. His tools are way way way too loud. You send him to Memphis and tell him that he can come back when he can start keeping his front shoulder in gets his hips into his swing (instead of way out in front). There is so much talent there and he's getting in his own way.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yes it is.

Because it's EVERYONE. If it were just O'Neill I'd listen. It's every single guy that leaves this organization. O'Neill, Randy, Garcia, Thomas, Hicks, Gallen, Alcantara.

You could build the fundamentals of a WS roster with nothing but our cast-offs. When the Rays acquire a player, he's on my fantasy baseball radar immediately. I know they're going to get good production out of the guy. When we TRADE a guy, I do the same thing. Because this organization for the last 10 years or so had reduced the productivity of every single player on its roster by about 20%.

If Dylan Carlson gets traded, RUN to pick him up off waivers. Liberatore? Grab him.

Because there's not a single person this franchise won't **** up. They broke Nolan Arenado, FFS.

It's a rotten organization and O'Neill is just part of the same trend they've shown across the board. They're unwilling to work with players to maximize what they are and instead hammer them for what they aren't.

Then they trade them away when there values are reduced. I would say send Walker down, but apparently no one can teach down there either.

[VAChief]

In Whitey’s prime our outfield right now would Garcia, Arozerena and TON/Carlson. How do I know? Because he had an approach speed, defense, get on base. You would see Edman/Wynn up the middle for the same reason.

Oli and Mo have no idea what approach to take, it’s scattergun at best.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Ramsfan...Stop defending this organization.....just.....stop

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni

Ramsfan...Stop defending this organization.....just.....stop

I don't feel like he's defending them but he's definitley trying to to throw a wet blanket on our unbridled hate.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

I don't feel like he's defending them but he's definitley trying to to throw a wet blanket on our unbridled hate.

Tell him to check the box score of todays game and ask himself why with a day off tomorrow the best young hitter on the team is on the bench.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

I don't feel like he's defending them but he's definitley trying to to throw a wet blanket on our unbridled hate.

Yeah - it's more like throwing a little baking soda at a grease fire. I mean it's an effort, but a half-hearted one and not likely to get you anywhere.

Too much heat to the hate here, Ramsfan. And the skillet's been left on the burner faaaaaar too long.

Just stand back and watch it burn, buddy.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Tell him to check the box score of todays game and ask himself why with a day off tomorrow the best young hitter on the team is on the bench.

I don't follow, Brendan Donovan and Ivan Herrera are both in the lineup...

But hey, gotta get Brandon Crawford some work, man.

Side note - Brandon Crawford got fat, man. That's pretty funny to me.

[DJ's left nut]

Just saw the Victor Scott error. Yiiiiiiiikes.

Get the kid outta here. That was awful. Worse, it was lazy. Took a bad route and then compounded it by drifting to the spot instead of beating the ball there.

That's as bad as you'll see on a ball like that.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Remember at one point we had Walker. Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen in the middle of the order...our broadcasters act like we have that NOW. Last night.....500 ball and the bats haven't heated up yet! What a lineup!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni

Remember at one point we had Walker. Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen in the middle of the order...our broadcasters act like we have that NOW. Last night.....500 ball and the bats haven't heated up yet! What a lineup!

Herrera didn't come through in that AB w/ the tying run in scoring position, but if I could choose anybody in the lineup to be up in that spot, it's him. Maybe Donovan. I guess I could live with Contreras as well.

But that's the state of the lineup. Goldschmidt is done and was a hollow-offense compiler at his best. Arenado just seems to be hunting for mistakes at this point. Gorman and Walker are disasters. Winn will probably put it in play but isn't exactly putting a charge into the ball.