Our current WR costs.

[Mr. Wizard]

2023 Kansas City Chiefs Wide Receiver Cap Hit Rankings
PLAYER
POS
CAP HIT
1
Marquez Valdes-Scantling
KC
WR $11,000,000
2
Kadarius Toney
KC
WR $1,907,228
3
Skyy Moore
KC
WR $1,466,022
4
John Ross
KC
WR $940,000
Ihmir Smith-Marsette
KC
WR $940,000
6
Cornell Powell
KC
WR $870,000
7
Jerrion Ealy
KC
WR $750,000
Ty Fryfogle
KC
WR $750,000
Justyn Ross
KC
WR $750,000

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

See, you're trying to base your entire argument on past production-so much, in fact, that you're willing to pay a premium for it on the open market.

But it's a false premise.

IF Veach and Reid don't go out and sign a Dhop or Beckham, it's because they feel really good about the capabilities they have in the room. They're projecting production because it's literally their job to do so.

When you're paying an elite QB, and you're drafting around 30 every year, you have to.

You look at Moore and say- It's insane to think he can go from 22 catches to 80! That's nuts!

But it's not really. Andy Reid is saying as much. Veach has said as much. What they've done in free agency doesn't say that they're all that concerned.

To grow your young talent, you have to actually play them. Look at Christian Watson. Stunk up the first half of the season, was a TD machine in the second half. We went slower with Moore because, you know, we were actually trying to win a Super Bowl. But if Andy's saying he expects Moore and Toney to play bigger roles, then that's what they're planning on doing.

They'll sign an insurance policy, and they'll draft a WR. I imagine the only reason they haven't signed Watson back yet is because they're looking at a couple of options that might have more upside. But they're not going to be #1WR types.

If they were doing that, they'd have cleared a lot more cap space, and it would be done already.

We're growing our own here, boys. It's not going to look comforting on paper before the games start, but if Andy's alright with it, we ought to have a little faith.

I've always said that we're probably not getting DHop. I just don't like OBJ. My theory has always been some possession WR (hopefully more dynamic than JuJu).

But the problem with your argument is that you expect Toney to play 17 games. And you expect Skyy to improve his production rate by a factor of 4. That's about 120 targets to get to 80 catches. When's the last time we saw that happen? Not just in KC, I mean ever? Never mind that you can't compare him to C. Watson. The guy's 6'5" and runs like a deer. Skyy is neither.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Cool, give me your season record prediction right now. This will be fun.

Who are we playing? I haven't seen the 2023 schedule yet.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Well sure. But for whatever reason it took both of them years to get right in NE. No idea why, but obviously they didn't hit the ground running. And both turned out to be very high-level players, so it wasn't for lack of brains or ability.

This is an inaccurate statement.

While it did take Edelman a few years to get up to speed as 7th round pick by the Pats in 2009, Welker had proven himself a solid WR with Miami. Pats traded for him and he IMMEDIATELY hit the ground running with 3 straight 100 reception, 1000 yard seasons in his first 3 years with New England.

Don’t make blanket statements if you don’t know what you’re talking about.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

This is an inaccurate statement.

While it did take Edelman a few years to get up to speed as 7th round pick by the Pats in 2009, Welker had proven himself a solid WR with Miami. Pats traded for him and he IMMEDIATELY hit the ground running with 3 straight 100 reception, 1000 yard seasons in his first 3 years with New England.

Don’t make blanket statements if you don’t know what you’re talking about.

This seems to imply that Welker wasn't all that in MIA.
https://www.pro-football-reference.c...W/WelkWe00.htm

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Cool, give me your season record prediction right now. This will be fun.

If Mahomes, Kelce, Toney, and Chris Jones stay healthy and Taylor makes a fairly good transition to LT...

They will once again have home field for the playoffs...

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I've always said that we're probably not getting DHop. I just don't like OBJ. My theory has always been some possession WR (hopefully more dynamic than JuJu).

But the problem with your argument is that you expect Toney to play 17 games. And you expect Skyy to improve his production rate by a factor of 4. That's about 120 targets to get to 80 catches. When's the last time we saw that happen? Not just in KC, I mean ever? Never mind that you can't compare him to C. Watson. The guy's 6'5" and runs like a deer. Skyy is neither.

I'm not EXPECTING anything other than Andy Reid and Brett Veach know what they're doing, really.

I would THINK they'll get a guy with good size and some upside still on the table to fill a spot in the room as insurance. And I would THINK they'll draft a guy early with potential to develop into a stud.

And I THINK we can count on continued development in the running game, enough to keep defenses honest, with Pacheco in year two. I THINK they'll bring back Mckinnon, I'd be really surprised if not.

The only other thing I EXPECT is that this defense is going to better out of the gate than last year's, with all those kids getting all those snaps last year. And Omenihu is a real nice signing. I think that looks like a top ten defense with potential to be top five.

So, you know, maybe we don't have to score 35 points every game. Maybe we can win 24-17 more often.

I EXPECT that Veach and Reid are going to put a contender for the Super Bowl on the field. If this WR room, plus a vet, and probably a draftee is something they're comfortable with, I trust them to know what they're doing.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

This seems to imply that Welker wasn't all that in MIA.
https://www.pro-football-reference.c...W/WelkWe00.htm

This was your quote:

“But for whatever reason, it took both of them years to get right in New England”

You were wrong.

Own it and quit talking out your ass to make a point.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Who are we playing? I haven't seen the 2023 schedule yet.

Does it matter?

No.

It doesn't.

The Chiefs are the only team that beats The Chiefs, it's been that way for years now.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

This was your quote:

“But for whatever reason, it took both of them years to get right in New England”

You were wrong.

Own it and quit talking out your ass to make a point.

About Wes I got it wrong. Not that it matters, after all it's just Wes. Still, he took several years to become a legit WR in the NFL, and Edelman did take a couple years to figure it out in NE for whatever reason, that still stands.

You may piss off now.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

About Wes I got it wrong. Not that it matters, after all it's just Wes. Still, he took several years to become a legit WR in the NFL, and Edelman did take a couple years to figure it out in NE for whatever reason, that still stands.

You may piss off now.

I called you out on an inaccurate statement and you tried to divert away from it.

You were so eager to make a point and you were just throwing BS out there.

But thank you for finally admitting you were talking out of your ass.


And you too, sir, may **** off now . . . . .

[Chris Meck]

Guys, they told us during the combine. They told us the other day. They keep telling us what they're doing.

Every big name free agent other than batshit crazy Odell was signed elsewhere. Arizona thinks they can get a haul for Dhop.

It ain't happening.

You want to stay on top, you have to grow your own. If you're paying your elite QB, you have to grow your stars around him.

We're growing our own, this is the process now, and it's as it should be.

They didn't want any of the guys for $10m. Didn't want the guys for $6m.

Drafting and developing is what they're doing. Get used to it.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

I called you out on an inaccurate statement and you tried to divert away from it.

You were so eager to make a point and you were just throwing BS out there.

But thank you for finally admitting you were talking out of your ass.


And you too, sir, may **** off now . . . . .

My point, dipstick, was merely that both players took time to become legitimate WRs in the NFL. The exact geographical location of where that happened wasn't really the point of my statement. In fact, if you had better reading comprehension you could've figured that part out for yourself, and we wouldn't have had to go down this rabbithole, dumbass.

Now please,

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Guys, they told us during the combine. They told us the other day. They keep telling us what they're doing.

Every big name free agent other than batshit crazy Odell was signed elsewhere. Arizona thinks they can get a haul for Dhop.

It ain't happening.

You want to stay on top, you have to grow your own. If you're paying your elite QB, you have to grow your stars around him.

We're growing our own, this is the process now, and it's as it should be.

They didn't want any of the guys for $10m. Didn't want the guys for $6m.

Drafting and developing is what they're doing. Get used to it.

Then get it right. They didn’t think mecole or Pringle were good enough to be paid in peanuts. Cornell Powell can’t break the roster. We have not drafted a single WR we want to keep since tyreek hill. That’s a problem. I am fine with getting younger but this isn’t a position we can blindly trust in. Same way we stopped making excuses for our poor OL personnel development until we placed some urgency after the Super Bowl. If they’re going this route they had better get it right real fast.

It is also the same lack of urgency that led to us over-relying on ceh. It took a 7th round pick playing out of his mind. We fixed the RB room through some degree of luck to find a gem that deep in the draft. We fixed our OL room through extreme urgency that led to an outstanding draft. I trust in veach to do that, but right now that means erasing a pretty poor recent track record.

As I’ve said before… veach has stepped up when it became urgent. So I don’t doubt we can pull it off. But it’s time we finally got it right. And it’s unacceptable to ask mahomes and kelce to carry this much weight on their shoulders just because they are talented. Get them some help, asap.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

My point, dipstick, was merely that both players took time to become legitimate WRs in the NFL. The exact geographical location of where that happened wasn't really the point of my statement. In fact, if you had better reading comprehension you could've figured that part out for yourself, and we wouldn't have had to go down this rabbithole, dumbass.

Now please,

I don’t think reading comprehension is the problem friend. I can read just fine. I think it was the BS statement by you that neither got going right away in NE. You were wrong, it was a dumb statement and you know it. And now you’re trying to backtrack again on your BS.

So continue to die on your dumbass hill, I guess.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I'm not EXPECTING anything other than Andy Reid and Brett Veach know what they're doing, really.

I would THINK they'll get a guy with good size and some upside still on the table to fill a spot in the room as insurance. And I would THINK they'll draft a guy early with potential to develop into a stud.

And I THINK we can count on continued development in the running game, enough to keep defenses honest, with Pacheco in year two. I THINK they'll bring back Mckinnon, I'd be really surprised if not.

The only other thing I EXPECT is that this defense is going to better out of the gate than last year's, with all those kids getting all those snaps last year. And Omenihu is a real nice signing. I think that looks like a top ten defense with potential to be top five.

So, you know, maybe we don't have to score 35 points every game. Maybe we can win 24-17 more often.

I EXPECT that Veach and Reid are going to put a contender for the Super Bowl on the field. If this WR room, plus a vet, and probably a draftee is something they're comfortable with, I trust them to know what they're doing.

We haven't averaged anything close to 35pts/game since 2018.

And if we're only going to score 24 points/game, we better have a top 5 defense. Though we've seen what can happen to top-5 defenses vs. top-5 offenses, haven't we?

Not sure about the running game. Oh, I think Pacheco will get close to 1,000 yards rushing. Maybe 1,200. Depends on several variables, but I can see it happening. But you don't win Rings by leaning just on the running game.

anyway, not really arguing with you. I also believe Andy and Veach know what their doing. i just believe they have some trick up their sleeve, because there's just no way they're looking at the WR room and believing it's good to go. Too many holes, not nearly enough reliable production. And they haven't really developed anyone to this point. I don't think they're dumb enough to Bs themselves into thinking they'll just have everything go their way this year just 'because.'