***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by penguinz

So getting a better medical plan will all of a sudden free up rooms and staff in her local hospitals?

Maybe, my 87 year old mother just had elective hip replacement. Yes our county numbers are covid high too but elective surgeries are done at other private locations.

[penguinz]

Originally Posted by jdubya

Maybe, my 87 year old mother just had elective hip replacement. Yes our county numbers are covid high too but elective surgeries are done at other private locations.

So she should move to a location with more options. Great solutions you have.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Oh, this is coming. Hospitals that are out of beds are going to start prioritizing.

Insurance companies are also going to stop agreeing to pay for even necessary treatment if you are hospitalized for COVID and not vaccinated.

So... if you choose not to vaccinate, get COVID, and end up in the hospital for a long period of time... guess what? You're footing the bill on you own and going to be begging the hospital to write off as much as it can and making monthly payments to that hospital for a LOOOOOONG time.

It is costing us big time for these people who refuse to get vaccinated.

Covid-19 hospitalizations in unvaccinated people cost the US health system $2.3 billion in June and July alone, a number which is likely an understatement, according to an analysis from the Kaiser Family Foundation published Friday.

KFF looked at various sources, including CMS data and analyses of private claims, to find that the average cost of a Covid-19 hospitalization was around $20,000.

They used Health and Human Services and US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data to find the number of preventable Covid-19 hospitalizations in the US in the months of June, 37,000 preventable hospitalizations, and July, 76,000 preventable hospitalizations.

“If each of these preventable hospitalizations cost roughly $20,000, on average, that would mean these largely avoidable hospitalizations have already cost the U.S. health system billions of dollars since the beginning of June,” the analysis says.
For this estimate, they looked at those who were hospitalized primarily due to Covid-19 and adjusted that number to reflect the fact that even if unvaccinated adults had got the vaccine, it would not prevent 100% of hospitalizations. Then they multiplied the number of preventable hospitalizations by the cost of each hospitalization, using a typical cost of $20,000.

“Based on our estimates, described below, we find preventable Covid-19 cost the U.S. health system $2.3 billion in June and July 2021,” the analysis says.

However, the analysis noted that “this ballpark figure is likely an understatement of the cost burden on the health system from treatment of Covid-19 among unvaccinated adults.”

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by sedated

I saw a conversation about this in DC (although I can't find it now) and obviously it did not go over well in that crowd. I think the argument was that why aren't we doing that for other groups like smokers and obese.

I believe the common term for this line of thinking is "slippery slope"

They largely prevented smoking from impacting other people by banning it in just about all indoor spaces, and neither of those things are overcrowding hospitals, while smokers enjoy higher insurance premiums and being taxed to hell on cigarettes.

I would see their "slippery slope" and raise them a "proportional response".

[Otter]

Originally Posted by penguinz

Maybe you should just reference your quote next time. Stop being a lazy bitch.

Did a guy sitting in front of a computer at 2:00pm in the afternoon on a Monday surfing the internet just write this?

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

It is costing us big time for these people who refuse to get vaccinated.

Lets make sure to keep doing this for fat asses and smokers after covid is over.

Unnecessarily unhealthy people have been driving up our healthcare cost for decades. This didn't start with covid.

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by penguinz

So she should move to a location with more options. Great solutions you have.

If my grandmother needed a hernia procedure, yes I would search other locations or plans without hesitation. If you want to scream at people for not getting vaccines, have at it. I prefer realistic solutions

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Lets make sure to keep doing this for fat asses and smokers after covid is over.

Unnecessarily unhealthy people have been driving up our healthcare cost for decades. This didn't start with covid.

True but those are life long habits and no shot to give them to stop their bad habits. It takes zero effort to get a covid vaccine.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Lets make sure to keep doing this for fat asses and smokers after covid is over.

Unnecessarily unhealthy people have been driving up our healthcare cost for decades. This didn't start with covid.

It's not very common, but there's certainly precedent for it. Life insurance policy premiums are usually based on a health questionnaire and screen, so people who are overweight or unhealthy pay a lot more for it. My guess is the reason we don't see that much in health insurance is just the weird way we've always done it through employers.

That said, we do tax the shit out of cigarettes, so in a sense people pay extra for the habit. It's just not directly tied to healthcare. And while obesity probably should come with higher premiums, it's less effective when half of the people out there would be paying the extra for it.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by jdubya

Sounds like she has a horrible medical plan/group.. Maybe you should find her a better plan?

Yeah, because hospital room availability is dependent on what type of insurance you have. Dumbass.

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by Fish

Yeah, because hospital room availability is dependent on what type of insurance you have. Dumbass.

Medical plans can determine where one can have elective procedures that aren’t dependent on hospitals. Hope this helps

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Lets make sure to keep doing this for fat asses and smokers after covid is over.

Unnecessarily unhealthy people have been driving up our healthcare cost for decades. This didn't start with covid.

Do you understand how insurance premiums work?

Because they already account for these factors. And health insurance companies have been incentivizing like crazy to get people to make better health decisions (premium reductions and etc.).

[sedated]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Do you understand how insurance premiums work?

Because they already account for these factors. And health insurance companies have been incentivizing like crazy to get people to make better health decisions (premium reductions and etc.).

[Devil's advocate] I don't think health insurance premiums are the main area of concern, they would want the same treatment for those that are willingly "unhealthy". Ie, no cancer treatment for smokers, since they made that choice. No treatment for heart disease for anyone who has a certain body fat percentage, since they should have made healthier choices. Etc.

[penguinz]

Originally Posted by Otter

Did a guy sitting in front of a computer at 2:00pm in the afternoon on a Monday surfing the internet just write this?

Some of us have amazing jobs that require us to be on the internet for 7+ hours a day.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

True but those are life long habits and no shot to give them to stop their bad habits. It takes zero effort to get a covid vaccine.

I think that's a key to it. No one argues that we don't all have bad habits that will eventually cause us to need health care, but most of those are slow burns that don't overcrowd the Healthcare System all at once. The problem with covid is that the unvaccinated people are going in en masse in a short period of time.