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Direckshun · 01-21-2021, 01:23 PM

What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach.

I doubt I even need to run down the list but:

2020: CEH --> Williams
2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins
2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston
2017: Mahomes --> Smith

Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring.

The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options:

Niang vs. the rookie for starting RT
if the rookie wins, Niang can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
if Niang wins, the rookie can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
the Chiefs love Fisher but if both Niang and the rookie excel, maybe they cut bait
if only one of them excel, the Chiefs can extend Fisher

It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have.

I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes.

Chris Meck · 02-06-2021, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Chiefs have won plenty of football games since Reid arrived with such run of the mill tackles as Brandon Albert, Donald Stephenson, Jah Reid, Cam Erving, Mike Remmers, Bryan Witzmann and even Yasir Durant.

Reid just schemes around any deficiency.

at some point there will be too many.

And why just allow them to be there anyway, when you can take steps to avoid that deficiency?

Just...forget it. We'll see what happens.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-06-2021, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Dude. Erving was a backup.

I feel like your arguments aren't even honest.

What the **** is this shit?

Fisher tore a core muscle and instead of panicking, they just plugged in Cam Erving. Now, they're plugging in Rankin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Eric Fisher #1 overall. Mitchell Schwartz 2nd round pick, nice fat contract.

Fisher was clearly the best choice in a shitty draft and he obviously didn't like Brandon Albert or he wouldn't have drafted Fisher.

Schwartz was a nice free agent signing but again, as you can see, the Chiefs haven't drafted a starting Right Tackle since Reid arrived in 2013.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

We were willing to dedicate significant resources to the position at both ends of the line.

And that was a different time, was it not? Alex Smith needed as much protection as possible.

Can you say the same about Mahomes? Clearly not, as he's had 4 starting Right Tackles this season without missing a beat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

We'll see what Veach does, but I seriously doubt he does nothing, which is what you're saying.

I didnt' say that the Chiefs will do nothing. I clearly stated that I think they'll take a tackle on Day 2 or Day 3 but that depends on Fisher's availability AND Rankins' performance tomorrow.

There's no reason to waste a Day 1 or Day 2 on a tackle if the Chiefs are good with their current tackles heading into the 2021 season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yeah, I guess so. You're overreaching when no one knows whether or not Fisher and Schwartz will be available to start the 2021 season and if so, this entire conversation is for naught.

kccrow · 02-06-2021, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Fisher turned 30 in January 2021.

Considering there are plenty of offensive lineman that play at a high level well into their 30’s, missing a year with an Achilles shouldn’t hamper his career moving forward.

If the Chiefs happen to move on from him, which I highly doubt at this point, he’ll have a bevy of suitors.

https://www.aaos.org/aaosnow/2020/aa...ch/research17/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf...3011417S000314

I'm just providing these to give you some background that there is absolutely no guarantee Fisher returns at all, much less as the same caliber player.

I'm not a doctor, so I go with the statistics from people that are. An Achilles is the most damning injury in sports today. Everyone heals differently from it given the lack of blood flow.

kccrow · 02-06-2021, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I still think you guys are overlooking Martinas Rankin, who will start the Super Bowl at LT.

The Chiefs have one more year of cheap control and if he plays well tomorrow, I don’t think there’s any doubt that he’s the 2021 starting left tackle, at least until Fisher is healthy.

It would be nice, for sure. I don't trust him out there but we'll have to see. I have to imagine we'll see more rolling away from that side and some chips to help, but we'll see how much faith Andy puts in him and how well he responds. For the sake of winning a title, I sure hope it works well.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-06-2021, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

https://www.aaos.org/aaosnow/2020/aa...ch/research17/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf...3011417S000314

I'm just providing these to give you some background that there is absolutely no guarantee Fisher returns at all, much less as the same caliber player.

I'm not a doctor, so I go with the statistics from people that are. An Achilles is the most damning injury in sports today. Everyone heals differently from it given the lack of blood flow.

Thanks for the links. The good thing is that he's not a running back because if that were the case, I'm sure the Chiefs would just move on.

The second link stated that the recovery time is 9 months and that "more players are returning to play after injury and with better post-injury performance as compared to the previous two decades".

So if that's the case, Fisher might be ready by Training Camp but I think it's probably safer to guess that he'll end up on the PUP and return somewhere around Week 9, as long as his recovery goes smoothly.

I feel bad for the guy because he's missing out for a chance to win a second consecutive Super Bowl as an NFL starter. Hopefully, he'll come back and play in a third straight Super Bowl.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-06-2021, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

It would be nice, for sure. I don't trust him out there but we'll have to see. I have to imagine we'll see more rolling away from that side and some chips to help, but we'll see how much faith Andy puts in him and how well he responds. For the sake of winning a title, I sure hope it works well.

I almost want to re-watch the Week 17 Chargers game to get a really good look at his performance in that game.

Almost.

htismaqe · 02-06-2021, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Walker Little, for example, is a Niang type situation and keeps lasting into the early 3rd. A legit starting LT talent that would be a first rounder other than coming off an injury and a sitting out a covid season. He's a perfect Reid style OT, Stanford doesn't put out dummies, and now healthy would be a great #64 pick.

Eichenberg is not a guard, and is projected as a plug-and-play starter at LT and is always there at #64.

Jalen Mayfield is always there at #32. Radunz is too.

You can argue the mocks are wrong, and they might well be. You can argue with the scouting reports if you want to, but I'll defer to guys who do it for a living.

Niang was probably going to start the season on PUP and they planned on using him as a backup guard to start with. In other words, if Little is a Niang type, he's not starting at LT next year.

Eichenberg projects as a RT. He's strong in the running game but struggles in space.

Jalen Mayfield is always there at 64 and I see him available into the 4th at times. He's just not a top flight prospect.

And Radunz is probably the best LT prospect of that bunch but even he isn't going to be able to start day 1. He's extremely raw.

And these aren't my opinions, these are all opinions I've drawn from scouting reports.

kccrow · 02-06-2021, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I almost want to re-watch the Week 17 Chargers game to get a really good look at his performance in that game.

Almost.

If I had access to it, I would. I passively watched that game because it was pretty well a throw-away game. I don't recall him being overly impressive, but hey I could be waaaaaay off base there.

Chris Meck · 02-07-2021, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Niang was probably going to start the season on PUP and they planned on using him as a backup guard to start with. In other words, if Little is a Niang type, he's not starting at LT next year.

Eichenberg projects as a RT. He's strong in the running game but struggles in space.

Jalen Mayfield is always there at 64 and I see him available into the 4th at times. He's just not a top flight prospect.

And Radunz is probably the best LT prospect of that bunch but even he isn't going to be able to start day 1. He's extremely raw.

And these aren't my opinions, these are all opinions I've drawn from scouting reports.

Those are nothing like the scouting reports that I have read on ANY of those guys.

Kiper is mocking Mayfield at #14. He has him ranked as the #3 tackle, and says he'd rank him first but Mayfield has 15 starts. Now, it's Kiper, whatever, but he's NEVER there at #64 in any of the mocks I run or have seen. Late first-early second in every one.

I say Little is a Niang situation meaning that he's a first round talent but drops due to an injury in mid 2019, and covid opted out in 2020. So not in a "we gotta wait a year for him to be healthy" , he's healthy NOW. Nobody's projecting him to play Guard-and Niang was only projected there because you had a healthy Fisher and Schwartz at the time. What they were saying was they thought Niang would be one of their best 5; but I think you know that and are just being difficult.

NFL Draft Network's analysis of Liam Eichenberg says, "NFL ready starting Left Tackle who should find assimilating to the pro game fairly easy"-Crabbs So no, that doesn't sound like a RT or a G.

I get that you REALLY don't want to take an OT early. Like you hate the idea. But you're showing a lot of confirmation bias here. You've even had to take OT in your own mock machine drafts because you've seen that's literally where the value wants to fall.

Stryker · 02-07-2021, 09:06 PM

Fix the offensive line? That would be ridicules! We lost because of our offensive line - let it go! God damn it!

Chris Meck · 02-07-2021, 09:14 PM

I take no pleasure in being right.

But anyone who tells me that it's a bad use of resources, or to just keep adding playmakers can eat a dick.

We lost this game because we could not function up front, and got dominated. Even Mahomes needs blocking.

Chris Meck · 02-07-2021, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I have to disagree. That would be a terrible plan.

The Chiefs can't waste valuable resources with the "hope" that the draftee would be an adequate Left Tackle on a team that's hoping to become a dynasty.

Hell, even Fisher, who was drafted #1 overall, wasn't ready to start at left tackle his rookie season and was nothing short of a disaster at Right Tackle.

Reid greatly prefers experience but since they don't have any cap space, it's most likely going to be someone who's already on the roster.

Dead ****ing wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Did I mention wrong?

WRONG.

Stryker · 02-07-2021, 09:16 PM

This is the most embarrassing loss I have ever witnessed as a Chiefs fan. Even more that the kicker who shall be unnamed God damn this hurts. A 25 year old QB with no OL help vs. a ****ing 43 yr old QB who made us look like absolute fools! Yes, WE NEED AN OFFENSIVE LINE - no doubt about it - DRAFT OL FIRST, SECOND, THIRD! This is ridicules!

htismaqe · 02-07-2021, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I get that you REALLY don't want to take an OT early. Like you hate the idea. But you're showing a lot of confirmation bias here. You've even had to take OT in your own mock machine drafts because you've seen that's literally where the value wants to fall.

Except that I don't.

I don't hate the idea at all.

What I'm against is drafting a tackle in the first regardless of who is there. I want a guy that can actually start on the left side day 1 if I'm taking a tackle that high. If Fisher comes back, then move him to the right, that's fine too.

There's very few guys that fit that bill, though.

Mayfield's lack of experience is concerning. Eichenberg absolutely is better suited for right tackle. Little's history is a red flag. None of those guys jump off the page for any other reason than they are tackles, not because they are top flight prospects.

Now, if we end up at #31 with one of those guys available and a bunch of other prospects with question marks at other positions, like DE, then you have to give the nod to need and take the tackle.

But if a potential blue chipper drops out of the 20's into our lap and we take a 2nd tier tackle, that's just bad drafting.

Hoover · 02-07-2021, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I take no pleasure in being right.

But anyone who tells me that it's a bad use of resources, or to just keep adding playmakers can eat a dick.

We lost this game because we could not function up front, and got dominated. Even Mahomes needs blocking.

Agree.

I don't want to reach for an LT, but I sure as hell don't ever want to relive this Super Bowl. That was awful.

01-21-2021, 01:23 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch	The logic of drafting OT in the 1st. What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach. I doubt I even need to run down the list but: 2020: CEH --> Williams 2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins 2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston 2017: Mahomes --> Smith Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring. The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options: Niang vs. the rookie for starting RT if the rookie wins, Niang can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position if Niang wins, the rookie can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position the Chiefs love Fisher but if both Niang and the rookie excel, maybe they cut bait if only one of them excel, the Chiefs can extend Fisher It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have. I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes.
Posts: 59,321

02-07-2021, 09:06 PM	#490
Stryker In Mahomes I trust! Stryker's Avatar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Baton Rouge, LA	Fix the offensive line? That would be ridicules! We lost because of our offensive line - let it go! God damn it!
Posts: 6,051	1 0

02-07-2021, 09:14 PM	#491
Chris Meck MVP Chris Meck's Avatar Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC	I take no pleasure in being right. But anyone who tells me that it's a bad use of resources, or to just keep adding playmakers can eat a dick. We lost this game because we could not function up front, and got dominated. Even Mahomes needs blocking.
Posts: 17,575	1 0

02-07-2021, 09:16 PM	#493
Stryker In Mahomes I trust! Stryker's Avatar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Baton Rouge, LA	This is the most embarrassing loss I have ever witnessed as a Chiefs fan. Even more that the kicker who shall be unnamed God damn this hurts. A 25 year old QB with no OL help vs. a ****ing 43 yr old QB who made us look like absolute fools! Yes, WE NEED AN OFFENSIVE LINE - no doubt about it - DRAFT OL FIRST, SECOND, THIRD! This is ridicules!
Posts: 6,051	1 0