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[ROYC75]

Discussion: All things Broncos.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

We were not discussing good decision history.

I was.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I was.

Well, that part wasn’t clear, I was addressing your initial comment about a culture of winning. Culture is built and sustained over time, decades.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Well, that part wasn’t clear, I was addressing your initial comment about a culture of winning. Culture is built and sustained over time, decades.

Cheating culture as well. Denver has been cheating for decades. At least they're #1 at something.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Well, that part wasn’t clear, I was addressing your initial comment about a culture of winning. Culture is built and sustained over time, decades.

But Denver doesn't sustain it. They were really bad before Elway, and did little between Elway and Manning. Since Manning, they've been arguably the worst franchise in the league other than the Jets.

To me, there's a big difference between a great organization and an organization that signed a few great players.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

But Denver doesn't sustain it. They were really bad before Elway, and did little between Elway and Manning. Since Manning, they've been arguably the worst franchise in the league other than the Jets.

To me, there's a big difference between a great organization and an organization that signed a few great players.

Denver is a great organization that's not great right now. And they won't be great this year, either. It's almost impossible given the environment. The offense is really struggling according to most local camp reports from ex-players.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

But Denver doesn't sustain it. They were really bad before Elway, and did little between Elway and Manning. Since Manning, they've been arguably the worst franchise in the league other than the Jets.

To me, there's a big difference between a great organization and an organization that signed a few great players.

So which teams would you consider to be great/have winning culture? Which ones have won consistently without a great QB?

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

So which teams would you consider to be great/have winning culture? Which ones have won consistently without a great QB?

Packers
Steelers
49ers
Ravens

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

But Denver doesn't sustain it. They were really bad before Elway, and did little between Elway and Manning. Since Manning, they've been arguably the worst franchise in the league other than the Jets.

To me, there's a big difference between a great organization and an organization that signed a few great players.

Again, you can look at these things from all sorts of perspectives.

They were terrible from '62-76.

They made the SB in '77 and then in the next 5 years before Elway, they won 10 games in 3 of those years.

Elway comes to town, they go to the playoffs 10X with 5 trips and 2 wins in the SB. Denver had the 2nd highest winning percentage during 83-98, second only to the 49ers.

They fell to 10th highest in winning percentage in the years between Elway and Manning. However in those 13 years, they were .500 or better in 10 of those years with 5 trips to the playoffs.

We know the Manning years and it wasn't until 2016 that the franchise took a true downward spiral, putting up 3 consecutive losing seasons for the first time since Bowlen bought the team in the early 80s.

Sure, the last 6 years have been brutal with 5 of those years being consecutive losing seasons. So, yeah recent history sucks, but throughout my lifetime, they've been a winning organization pretty consistently.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Packers
Steelers
49ers
Ravens

So these guys were not great QBs:

Starr
Favre
Rodgers
Bradshaw (certainly not by today's standards, but things were different in the 70s)
Roethlisberger
Montana
Young
Flacco (this I agree with)
Dilfer (agree)

Without those QBs the teams you listed have won 0 SBs. It looks to me that only the Ravens have won consistently without a great QB.

[mnchiefsguy]

The Broncos are the only franchise in NFL history to win a SuperBowl and then miss the playoffs for the next six years.

Culture is fluid and subject to change---one great draft choice can change an entire franchise's culture and outlook.

Right now Denver's culture sucks. Can Russell change that? Possibly, but given that the Donkeys has missed the playoffs the last six years leaves plenty of room for doubt.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Packers
Steelers
49ers
Ravens

I'd add the Patriots. Probably the Cowboys too, even though they haven't won a lot of playoff games recently.

KC has become a great organization since hiring Reid.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I'd add the Patriots. Probably the Cowboys too, even though they haven't won a lot of playoff games recently.

KC has become a great organization since hiring Reid.

The Patriots have won consistently without a great QB?

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

So these guys were not great QBs:

Starr
Favre
Rodgers
Bradshaw (certainly not by today's standards, but things were different in the 70s)
Roethlisberger
Montana
Young
Flacco (this I agree with)
Dilfer (agree)

Without those QBs the teams you listed have won 0 SBs. It looks to me that only the Ravens have won consistently without a great QB.

Not only did the 49ers find Joe Montana and Steve Young, they also drafted Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick who took them to the Championship game and a SB. They also traded for Jimmy Grapes and went to a SB with him.

Steelers identified Big Ben. Kordell Stewart was identified by them and went to the AFCCG. They drafted Bradshaw. They found Neil O’Donnel and went to a SB with him.

The Packers found both Favre and Rodgers when nobody else thought much of them. They deserve massive credit for that.

The Broncos fell into a whiny Elway who was “the greatest QB prospect ever” at the time. Then they fell into Manning who was a HOF before he ever put on a jersey.

They can’t find any real talent themselves. They never have.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Culture Builders

Welcome to #BroncosCountry, Walton-Penner Family Ownership Group! pic.twitter.com/14wDnvXYSt

— Denver Broncos (@Broncos) August 10, 2022

[ptlyon]

Ya, that Walmart has quite the culture...