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dlphg9 · 03-12-2020, 10:34 PM

So as I was in the middle of doing some research for a post I went down a rabbit hole and eventually found myself looking at Gale Sayers stats. I may be completely off base here, because admittedly I have never watched any Gale Sayers highlights and am basing this on stats, but how in the hell is he in the HOF? Hell USA Today had him ranked as number 21 all time, 247sports has him ranked as 48 all time.

He played for 7 seasons, but only played a total of 4 games in years 6 and 7 combined. He only had 2 1000 yard seasons and those were the only times he led the league in rushing. He only had 2 seasons in which he had double digit receiving + rushing TDs. He was amazing at punt and kick off returns, but that was only for his first 3 years.

His career accomplishments aren't really that great, besides being AP 4 times. He never even got to play in a playoff game, so he obviously doesn't have any SB championships. He isn't even in the top 100 for career rushing yards, hell he's barely even in the top 150 coming in at 145th. He had a massive amount of rushing TDs though... 39...

He was good at 1 thing when it came to carrying the ball and that was fumbling. He almost has as many fumbles (34) as he does rushing TDs (39). Hell in a couple of seasons he had significantly more fumbles than rushing TDs.

Yr/Rush TDs/Fumbles

1/14/9
2/8/2
3/7/8
4/2/7
5/8/7
6/0/1
7/0/0

Out of 7 years he fumbled more than he rushed for a TD in 3 of those years.

He does have a few things on his resume that are pretty decent. He averaged 5.0 ypc over his entire career, was a fantastic returner during his first 3 years, and his rookie season he had 14 rush TDs, 6 receiving TDs, 1 kickoff return TD, and 1 punt return TD. I think his rookie season may be the reason he is so highly regarded. He is just incredibly over rated and seems to get a boost from being injury prone.

Someone prove me wrong.

Ubeja Vontell · 03-13-2020, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter LaCanforno

I always heard Riggins ran a 9.7

Gayle Sayers should have signed with the Chiefs after they drafted him.

Boys Track Records

Event

Time/Distance

Year

Name

100 Yd Dash

9.8

1967
John Riggins

220 Yd Dash

21.7

1967
John Riggins

100 M Dash 10.90 1980 Todd Polson
200 M Dash 22.10 1981 Todd Polson
400 M Dash

49.82

1982
Todd Polson

800 M Run

1:57.91

2013
Lukas Koch

1600 M Run

4:16.63

2013 Lukas Koch

Abner Haynes was pretty good, he got the job done.

By the way Riggins could also long jump over 21 feet.

Used to be a video of Riggins winning one of those 100's at State. Then....poof!

oldman · 03-13-2020, 06:18 AM

I saw him play at Kansas and in the pros. He had both power and speed, but the thing that stood out to me was the way he could change direction without losing either. He's a HOFer for sure.

**Tribal Warfare** · 03-13-2020, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman

I saw him play at Kansas and in the pros. He had both power and speed, but the thing that stood out to me was the way he could change direction without losing either. He's a HOFer for sure.

Deacon Jones: "he ran so pretty you'd stand there and forget to tackle"

Fansy the Famous Bard · 03-13-2020, 06:24 AM

He was actually drafted by the Chiefs in the AFL draft out of the University of Kansas. But chose the Bears who also drafted him in the NFL draft. Oh what could have been...

**Tribal Warfare** · 03-13-2020, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fansy the Famous Bard

He was actually drafted by the Chiefs in the AFL draft out of the University of Kansas. But chose the Bears who also drafted him in the NFL draft. Oh what could have been...

His wife pushed him towards the NFL because ultimately they thought the AFL would flame out

Ubeja Vontell · 03-13-2020, 06:38 AM

While at Kansas he averaged 7.1, 6.9, 5.2 in his three seasons. Funny thing there is nothing about kick returns.

It is unusual to have your starting RB returning kicks.

Jim Brown actually returned some kickoffs.

oldman · 03-13-2020, 06:49 AM

You have to remember that most college and pro teams at that time were running a T formation and the TE was seldom used as a receiver. Normally, your HBs were the fastest guys on the team. It wasn't until the AFL came along that the SE/Flanker (aka WR) became a thing. Chris Burford never had a 1000 yard season.

Ubeja Vontell · 03-13-2020, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman

You have to remember that most college and pro teams at that time were running a T formation and the TE was seldom used as a receiver. Normally, your HBs were the fastest guys on the team. It wasn't until the AFL came along that the SE/Flanker (aka WR) became a thing. Chris Burford never had a 1000 yard season.

Don Hutson in the 30's?

Tom Fears had a couple 1000 yard seasons before the AFL.

Bob Boyd a 1000 yard season. An NCAA 100 champ.

How about....

oldman · 03-13-2020, 08:50 AM

Again, you cite just a few examples. Sure, there were some ends that had 1000 yard seasons over the 40 years of the NFL before the AFL came along, but the primary weapon before the AFL was the HB.
Before you bring up my statement about the T-formation, there was the Split-T, Wing-T, and even the Wishbone was another variation of the T.

Ubeja Vontell · 03-13-2020, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman

Again, you cite just a few examples. Sure, there were some ends that had 1000 yard seasons over the 40 years of the NFL before the AFL came along, but the primary weapon before the AFL was the HB.
Before you bring up my statement about the T-formation, there was the Split-T, Wing-T, and even the Wishbone was another variation of the T.

I don't get what the AFL has to do with anything.

**Rain Man** · 03-13-2020, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman

Again, you cite just a few examples. Sure, there were some ends that had 1000 yard seasons over the 40 years of the NFL before the AFL came along, but the primary weapon before the AFL was the HB.
Before you bring up my statement about the T-formation, there was the Split-T, Wing-T, and even the Wishbone was another variation of the T.

Or fullbacks. Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, Marion Motley, etc. I'd be curious about the role of the fullback versus the halfback in NFL history to see where the tide shifted, and which players may have led that shift. There have always been prominent halfbacks going back to Red Grange and Beattie Feathers, but I feel like fullbacks got equal or better workloads up until ... the 1960s?

Halfcan · 03-13-2020, 09:07 AM

He carried the ball like a loaf of bread.

**Rain Man** · 03-13-2020, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

He carried the ball like a loaf of bread.

Andy would have deactivated him for Super Bowl LIV.

**Baby Lee** · 03-13-2020, 09:17 AM

Sayers lives more on legendary potential and skill that outshone his contemporaries more than longevity or durability, that much is obvious.

But his potential and skill is hard to visualize in contemporary terms.

Best I could imagine for a Chiefs fan of today, is picture if you had Jamaal Charles' most productive season and Devin Hester's, in the same player.

The thing that differentiates his from other young RB phenoms was how he could split defenders and completely change the field in full stride.

People are STILL agape how Michael Vick and Lamar Jackson did something vaguely similar once or twice in their careers.

Ubeja Vontell · 03-13-2020, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Or fullbacks. Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, Marion Motley, etc. I'd be curious about the role of the fullback versus the halfback in NFL history to see where the tide shifted, and which players may have led that shift. There have always been prominent halfbacks going back to Red Grange and Beattie Feathers, but I feel like fullbacks got equal or better workloads up until ... the 1960s?

Jim Brown
Jim Taylor
John Henry Johnson
Marion Motley
Tank Younger
Rick Casares
Joe Perry
Alan Amechi
Alex Webster
Bronko Nagurski
Nick Pietrasonte
Dick Bass

All listed as fullbacks

The first 1000 yard rusher in the AFL FB Cookie Gilchrist

03-12-2020, 10:34 PM
dlphg9 MVP dlphg9's Avatar Join Date: Oct 2010	Gale Sayers - Extremely over rated? So as I was in the middle of doing some research for a post I went down a rabbit hole and eventually found myself looking at Gale Sayers stats. I may be completely off base here, because admittedly I have never watched any Gale Sayers highlights and am basing this on stats, but how in the hell is he in the HOF? Hell USA Today had him ranked as number 21 all time, 247sports has him ranked as 48 all time. He played for 7 seasons, but only played a total of 4 games in years 6 and 7 combined. He only had 2 1000 yard seasons and those were the only times he led the league in rushing. He only had 2 seasons in which he had double digit receiving + rushing TDs. He was amazing at punt and kick off returns, but that was only for his first 3 years. His career accomplishments aren't really that great, besides being AP 4 times. He never even got to play in a playoff game, so he obviously doesn't have any SB championships. He isn't even in the top 100 for career rushing yards, hell he's barely even in the top 150 coming in at 145th. He had a massive amount of rushing TDs though... 39... He was good at 1 thing when it came to carrying the ball and that was fumbling. He almost has as many fumbles (34) as he does rushing TDs (39). Hell in a couple of seasons he had significantly more fumbles than rushing TDs. Yr/Rush TDs/Fumbles 1/14/9 2/8/2 3/7/8 4/2/7 5/8/7 6/0/1 7/0/0 Out of 7 years he fumbled more than he rushed for a TD in 3 of those years. He does have a few things on his resume that are pretty decent. He averaged 5.0 ypc over his entire career, was a fantastic returner during his first 3 years, and his rookie season he had 14 rush TDs, 6 receiving TDs, 1 kickoff return TD, and 1 punt return TD. I think his rookie season may be the reason he is so highly regarded. He is just incredibly over rated and seems to get a boost from being injury prone. Someone prove me wrong.
Posts: 16,978

03-13-2020, 06:18 AM	#32
oldman Curmudgeon oldman's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North by Northwest	I saw him play at Kansas and in the pros. He had both power and speed, but the thing that stood out to me was the way he could change direction without losing either. He's a HOFer for sure.
Posts: 5,319

03-13-2020, 06:24 AM	#34
Fansy the Famous Bard I'm with the Banned Fansy the Famous Bard's Avatar Join Date: Feb 2009	He was actually drafted by the Chiefs in the AFL draft out of the University of Kansas. But chose the Bears who also drafted him in the NFL draft. Oh what could have been...
Posts: 6,051

03-13-2020, 06:38 AM	#36
Ubeja Vontell Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: central Cali	While at Kansas he averaged 7.1, 6.9, 5.2 in his three seasons. Funny thing there is nothing about kick returns. It is unusual to have your starting RB returning kicks. Jim Brown actually returned some kickoffs.
Posts: 14,032

03-13-2020, 06:49 AM	#37
oldman Curmudgeon oldman's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North by Northwest	You have to remember that most college and pro teams at that time were running a T formation and the TE was seldom used as a receiver. Normally, your HBs were the fastest guys on the team. It wasn't until the AFL came along that the SE/Flanker (aka WR) became a thing. Chris Burford never had a 1000 yard season.
Posts: 5,319

03-13-2020, 08:50 AM	#39
oldman Curmudgeon oldman's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North by Northwest	Again, you cite just a few examples. Sure, there were some ends that had 1000 yard seasons over the 40 years of the NFL before the AFL came along, but the primary weapon before the AFL was the HB. Before you bring up my statement about the T-formation, there was the Split-T, Wing-T, and even the Wishbone was another variation of the T.
Posts: 5,319

03-13-2020, 09:07 AM	#42
Halfcan In Search of a Life Halfcan's Avatar Join Date: Aug 2005	He carried the ball like a loaf of bread.
Posts: 43,200

03-13-2020, 09:17 AM	#44
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000	Sayers lives more on legendary potential and skill that outshone his contemporaries more than longevity or durability, that much is obvious. But his potential and skill is hard to visualize in contemporary terms. Best I could imagine for a Chiefs fan of today, is picture if you had Jamaal Charles' most productive season and Devin Hester's, in the same player. The thing that differentiates his from other young RB phenoms was how he could split defenders and completely change the field in full stride. People are STILL agape how Michael Vick and Lamar Jackson did something vaguely similar once or twice in their careers.
Posts: 95,642	1 0