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12-11-2019, 11:19 AM | #4366 | |
MVP
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NYC
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Posts: 7,973
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12-11-2019, 11:24 AM | #4367 |
Hockey Town
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
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They aren't making moves for young players, they aren't improving their team and we got DM saying core like the team is good, dude is not good at this job anymore.
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Posts: 113,023
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12-11-2019, 12:24 PM | #4368 |
Banned!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: NOT Columbia, MO 65201
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Haven't we known that for a while? The Championship required an incredible amount of luck, especially with the pitching.
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Posts: 46,909
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12-11-2019, 02:14 PM | #4369 | |
Sauntering Vaguely Downwards
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, Mo
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I mean he had a super bullpen before super bullpens were cool. And then teams went about trying to purchase or even trade for pieces to build super bullpens of their own. But you CAN'T. You just kinda fall into stuff like that because reliever volatility makes that sort of thing impossible. The idea that there is any amount of money or trade capital you can throw at the market to get a bullpen that pitched like that set of !@#$ing cyborgs pitched for a couple of years is laughable. Just as laughable as the notion that DM set out to build a bullpen like that. It just sorta happened when a 10th round pick, a cheap international flier and a failed starter went OFF for 24 months. The bullpen was a happy accident. Most truly excellent bullpens are. Because there's just so little consistency/predictability in bullpen performance. Now where he does deserve a ton of credit was his realization in '14 and '15 that he HAD a super bullpen and he needs to do things to capitalize on that. Y'all don't win the championship without Cueto and Zobrist; Moore deserves a ton of credit for those decisions. |
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Posts: 63,171
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12-11-2019, 02:17 PM | #4370 |
World's Best Boss
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bronco Country
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It's amazing to me that there are still "Cueto deniers" among the Royals fandom, rather, folks who say Cueto wasn't necessary to the Royals 2015 title. They used to say the trade was "too expensive." Now that everyone involved in that trade has more or less burned out, they say things like "well the Royals scored 7 runs both games he started lel" as justification that the trade wasn't worth it.
The dude pitched two two hitters in the postseason. Cueto was gold, and if Chris Young got jumped for 5 runs against the Stros in Game 5, we wouldn't have had a chance to score 7 runs if Hinch doesn't pull McHugh too early (someone who probably mastered the Royals style better than any other pitcher that postseason). Last edited by Chiefspants; 12-11-2019 at 07:57 PM.. |
Posts: 18,570
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12-11-2019, 02:26 PM | #4371 |
Rabbi Goldmann
Join Date: Nov 2012
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You don’t luck into a title in any sport. Period. That should end the argument.
You don’t luck into playing for the title in back to back years in any sport. Period. You don’t luck into leading your league in wins over a 3-year period in any sport. Period. |
Posts: 87,025
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12-11-2019, 02:28 PM | #4372 | |
Rabbi Goldmann
Join Date: Nov 2012
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You could do that for any team who’s ever won a title. |
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Posts: 87,025
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12-11-2019, 02:29 PM | #4373 |
Hockey Town
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
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Posts: 113,023
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12-11-2019, 02:32 PM | #4374 |
Sauntering Vaguely Downwards
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, Mo
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Little bit, sure.
But nothings less predictable in baseball than bullpen performance. And the Royals won consecutive AL Pennants on the back of a bullpen that was dominant for 2 seasons and HISTORICALLY so for one of them. You can put an element of luck on any championship, yes. But when you build a team around the one thing that's essentially impossible to count on in that sport AND in the process you get a performance that's not just unexpected and not just great, but almost certainly better than any team in baseball history has ever had while committing a paucity of resources to it....well there's more luck there than most. |
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12-11-2019, 02:35 PM | #4375 | |
Hockey Town
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
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12-11-2019, 02:40 PM | #4376 | ||
Rabbi Goldmann
Join Date: Nov 2012
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No, not a little bit. Fully. MLB is easily the hardest to do it in anyway given the (1) massive payroll disparity and (2) long lead time of personnel coming they the development pipeline.
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If you want to talk luck here’s my advice: the 14 wild card game and 15 Alds 4 |
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12-11-2019, 02:40 PM | #4377 |
Hockey Town
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
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Posts: 113,023
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12-11-2019, 02:47 PM | #4378 | |
Sauntering Vaguely Downwards
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, Mo
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And surely you'll recognize how the Royals style of play could've only worked when they knew full well that the opponent wasn't scoring past the 6th. You give either of those teams merely a GOOD bullpen and they don't win a championship. The '14 team likely doesn't even make the playoffs. The Royals could be patient and play for 1 run at a time with their low power, low OBP, high speed and high contact offense because they knew in the late innings they were shooting at a fixed target. Whatever number of runs the opponent had, that's how many they were gonna get. The stress that put on teams (who KNEW they had to start hot) and the confidence that gave the Royals (who knew they could just keep chippin' away) was unreal. That's why the Royals kept breaking prediction models - because nobody had a good way to account for the fundamental ways that their insane bullpen changed the way those games were played. They simply went off script. And regarding the extended duration - I agree that the Big 3 weren't a Blake Treinen situation, but they also weren't guys who anyone had pegged as studs BEFORE the 2014 season. Nobody was reasonably relying on those 3 guys to set records. Their ascension came from left field and was the central component to both of those pennants. |
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12-11-2019, 02:51 PM | #4379 | |
Sauntering Vaguely Downwards
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, Mo
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I'm just beyond tired of listening to sportwriters carp about the raw deal the players are getting. You have a problem with it, come correct to the negotiating table next time and/or insist on better leadership. Oh, or be demonstrably BETTER than dudes that cost 1/3 of what you do. Still can't believe I saw someone on Twitter bemoaning the injustice of Kevin Pillar NOT getting $9 million this season. Any organization that gives Kevin Pillar guaranteed money deserves to be pilloried by baseball Twitter, not saluted. That dude's an out machine and a non-roster invite waiting to happen. |
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12-11-2019, 03:00 PM | #4380 | |||||
Rabbi Goldmann
Join Date: Nov 2012
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If the Big 3 lifted us to 89 wins the Little 3 dragged us from reaching 91. Quote:
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