***Official 2021-2022 NBA Thread***

[Pitt Gorilla]

Season tips off tonight! LET'S GOOOOO!!!!

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger

Lol yep the same old tedious stats get rolled out like Embiid isn't better than him in ppg this season right? if you want to just use stats then Harden was historic offensively from 2017 to 2020 but was he seen as a better player than KD or Lebron? Please think before you answer.

Joel Embiid is LeBron James and Kevin Durant in this analogy?

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I'm pretty sure not a single sentence of this paragraph is true other than the free throw rate.

Jokic has a .299 WS/48 (league leading), 9.2 OBPM (league leading), 4.7 DBPM (league leading), 13.9 BPM (league leading), 7.3 VORP (league leading), 15.0 RAPTOR (league leading), 16.7 WAR (league leading), 11.45 RPM (league leading).

Embiid has a .267 WS/48, 7.6 OBPM, 2.3 DBPM, 9.9 BPM, 4.7 VORP, 7.5 RAPTOR, 8.5 WAR, 9.76 RPM.

Be honest. You made up half of those stat acronyms

[Gary Cooper]

I'd give Giannis the MVP but the voters seem tired of him. I don't hear his name mentioned much. His numbers are similar to Embiid's and he's even more effective defensively because he can guard multiple positions.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by JudasRising20

I'd give Giannis the MVP but the voters seem tired of him. I don't hear his name mentioned much. His numbers are similar to Embiid's and he's even more effective defensively because he can guard multiple positions.

Right.

If you're going to award it based on what a player is CAPABLE of doing, it's Giannis. If you're going to award it based on what a player IS doing, it's Jokic.

I don't see an argument for Embiid at this point. He's not quite as productive as Jokic or quite as versatile/capable as Giannis. No matter your metric, your answer isn't Embiid, IMO.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Right.

If you're going to award it based on what a player is CAPABLE of doing, it's Giannis. If you're going to award it based on what a player IS doing, it's Jokic.

I don't see an argument for Embiid at this point. He's not quite as productive as Jokic or quite as versatile/capable as Giannis. No matter your metric, your answer isn't Embiid, IMO.

What's wrong with Giannis? He's putting up monster numbers again in points and rebounds. He's a MUCH better defender than Jokic. Jokic is averaging two more assists per game than Giannis and two more rebounds; however, he's scoring four less points than Giannis.

Their offensive numbers aren't enough in Nikola's favor to make up for the defensive superiority of Giannis.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by JudasRising20

What's wrong with Giannis? He's putting up monster numbers again in points and rebounds. He's a MUCH better defender than Jokic. Jokic is averaging two more assists per game than Giannis and two more rebounds; however, he's scoring four less points than Giannis.

Their offensive numbers aren't enough in Nikola's favor to make up for the defensive superiority of Giannis.

Nothing at all - I think there's a fine argument to be made for Giannis as well.

My point is mostly as to Embiid - there's just not a lane for him, IMO.

If you want to lean into stats, you can say that Jokic's extra assists and boards more directly impact the scoreboard than Giannis and that with his range being better he has more impact on his team offensively by being able to space the floor more.

And then lean into the 'aggregate' stats to point out that yes, his offense DOES do enough more than Giannis's defense to be more valuable given that he has him edged in WAR and VORP.

But for Embiid, there's just not a path through those two that I can reasonably argue.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nothing at all - I think there's a fine argument to be made for Giannis as well.

My point is mostly as to Embiid - there's just not a lane for him, IMO.

If you want to lean into stats, you can say that Jokic's extra assists and boards more directly impact the scoreboard than Giannis and that with his range being better he has more impact on his team offensively by being able to space the floor more.

And then lean into the 'aggregate' stats to point out that yes, his offense DOES do enough more than Giannis's defense to be more valuable given that he has him edged in WAR and VORP.

But for Embiid, there's just not a path through those two that I can reasonably argue.

Embiid's path is that voters are tired of Giannis and Jokic won it last year. Embiid is also a presence defensively. The fact that Giannis can guard more players won't be a factor to most voters.

[UChieffyBugger]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nothing at all - I think there's a fine argument to be made for Giannis as well.

My point is mostly as to Embiid - there's just not a lane for him, IMO.

If you want to lean into stats, you can say that Jokic's extra assists and boards more directly impact the scoreboard than Giannis and that with his range being better he has more impact on his team offensively by being able to space the floor more.

And then lean into the 'aggregate' stats to point out that yes, his offense DOES do enough more than Giannis's defense to be more valuable given that he has him edged in WAR and VORP.

But for Embiid, there's just not a path through those two that I can reasonably argue.

Embiid is the best player in the league right now...period. Jokic is simply a fat stat padder who's team has been irrelevant this year. i get the feeling most of the Embiid haters haven't actually watched him this season because what you lot are saying is pure BS IMO. There's a reason why he's the favourite..it's not by accident.

[UChieffyBugger]

Originally Posted by JudasRising20

Embiid's path is that voters are tired of Giannis and Jokic won it last year. Embiid is also a presence defensively. The fact that Giannis can guard more players won't be a factor to most voters.

Giannis can't guard smaller guards with speed...our boy Tyrese Maxey has taken him to the cleaners in isolation in every game we've played the bucks.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger

Giannis can't guard smaller guards with speed...our boy Tyrese Maxey has taken him to the cleaners in isolation in every game we've played the bucks.

Giannis can guard a lot more athletic players than Embiid.

Embiid needs to get his broke dick out of the second round before I'll talk about him being the best player in the league. He's not better than Giannis, Curry, Lebron, or Durant. He's also fat and constantly looks tired. If you're making fun of Jokic's physical condition, I'm not sure Embiid is the guy to contrast him with. I'll be shocked if Embiid can play many minutes over three or four playoff rounds. Dude always looks winded enough to be playing in Mile High Stadium.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger

Embiid is the best player in the league right now...period. Jokic is simply a fat stat padder who's team has been irrelevant this year. i get the feeling most of the Embiid haters haven't actually watched him this season because what you lot are saying is pure BS IMO. There's a reason why he's the favourite..it's not by accident.

The Nuggets are 1.5 games behind the 76ers in the standings. I know they play in a different Conference. It's just funny you saying they're irrelevant. Just because it's a smaller market and they didn't have a Ben Simmons fiasco?

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger

Embiid is the best player in the league right now...period. Jokic is simply a fat stat padder who's team has been irrelevant this year. i get the feeling most of the Embiid haters haven't actually watched him this season because what you lot are saying is pure BS IMO. There's a reason why he's the favourite..it's not by accident.

Philadelphia 76er's current record: 37-23
Denver Nuggets current record: 36-25

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger

Bro I wouldn't give a crap even if you was Joel's damn father!!..he's on a different planet to Jokic if you just watch them play instead of looking at all the stats In fine detail. Joel is basically a bigger Durant right now and Jokic ain't seeing that..he's just not. Jo's got better handles, better feet, better in isolation...WAY BETTER defender, get's to the line more etc..so you're right...IT'S NOT CLOSE

I mean, yeah, if we throw out the stats and just focus on how we feel about the player, Embiid might be in the conversation.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by JudasRising20

I'd give Giannis the MVP but the voters seem tired of him. I don't hear his name mentioned much. His numbers are similar to Embiid's and he's even more effective defensively because he can guard multiple positions.

It's not just the voters, apparently. I live 4 hours from Milwaukee and can't seem to find a Bucks game on TV. TNT/TBS certainly doesn't seem to want them.

[htismaqe]

You guys need to remember who you are responding to...