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Old 07-14-2020, 11:51 AM  
staylor26 staylor26 is offline
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Veach is the best GM in the NFL
I don’t think it’s even debatable at this point
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Old 10-11-2021, 07:36 AM   #361
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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You know what I love about Chiefsplanet?

We lose a couple of games, and our GM is an idiot, and coach Reid is terrible, and all of these players are busts, and anyone who says otherwise is a dumbass.

Then we'll win a few games and all of that is forgotten and everyone never doubted the team for a second.
Yup. Chicken Littles all over the place.
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Old 10-11-2021, 07:40 AM   #362
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He’s an NFL GM.

NFL GMs miss on picks. Sometimes in the 2nd or 3rd round.

The key is to just be better than the other GMs at not whiffing as much

He gets paid to get things right. If you're not improving your roster, you lose in the NFL, period. We have not consistently improved positions through the draft from 2018-2020.

To his credit, I think the 2021 draft looks pretty good.
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Old 10-11-2021, 07:40 AM   #363
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My biggest gripe with Veach is the RB depth he put together after what he did with the OL. The talent in this team is fine. They just aren't playing with the same fire the past two season. Drunk off of success maybe
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Old 10-11-2021, 07:41 AM   #364
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Anyone ready to admit that Veach might be a problem yet?
We had the same problem in 2018. We went from the worst pass defense to the 12th pass defense in 2019, iirc, and we won the SB.

HB is a FA after the season. They can get out of Clark and Hitchens contracts. He'll have money to make changes. I have faith he will get it done. He's done it before.
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Old 10-11-2021, 07:47 AM   #365
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We know Veach got Reid and Dorsey to buy in on Mahomes. That was legendary Veach-ian work acknowledged by all parties.

Why do you assume that it was all Dorsey who knew *exactly* where he needed to be to draft Mahomes? Veach was the one in contact with Mahomes' rep Chris Cabbot for 94 consecutive days before the draft.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...d-with-chiefs/


Veach is responsible for Mahomes. We won a Super Bowl because of Mahomes. We have potentially the greatest athlete of our generation in Kansas City because of Veach.

You want to pretend he should be evaluated because of Hardman and Speaks? Laughable. If Veach didn't exist, this franchise would've likely gone decades without another title.

It's not that Veach can do no wrong - he's absolutely had some misses - but the guy gets enormous credit because he's primarily responsible for the most franchise-altering decision in the modern NFL.
Just because Veach did a great job with Mahomes, that doesn't mean he is going to make a good GM. Being a GM is different than being a scout. There's more decisions to be made and you've got to be able to judge all different types of positions, not just a QB. Whatever sentiments Clark Hunt has for Veach for helping to draft Mahomes needs to be put to the side when he is judging how Veach is doing his job as a GM.

Lets not forget that you yourself said when you met Veach he was gushing about Frank Clark. Constantly bragging about how good he was going to be and how he is the second coming of Reggie White. Obviously Veach was very wrong about Clark its costing this team right now.
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Old 10-11-2021, 07:53 AM   #366
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Just because Veach did a great job with Mahomes, that doesn't mean he is going to make a good GM. Being a GM is different than being a scout. There's more decisions to be made and you've got to be able to judge all different types of positions, not just a QB.

Lets not forget that you yourself said when you met Veach he was gushing about Frank Clark. Constantly bragging about how good he was going to be and how he is the second coming of Reggie White. Obviously Veach was very wrong about Clark its costing this team right now.

If we keep giving Veach credit for the 2017 draft, we're screwed. The NFL is built entirely around "what have you done for me lately".

Veach had a pretty good draft in 2021, IMO. But from 2018-2020 he failed.

His personnel decisions have been pretty suspect.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:00 AM   #367
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If we keep giving Veach credit for the 2017 draft, we're screwed. The NFL is built entirely around "what have you done for me lately".

Veach had a pretty good draft in 2021, IMO. But from 2018-2020 he failed.

His personnel decisions have been pretty suspect.
Yep. Elway did an excellent job in Denver from 2011-2015. But he got fired because of what he did from 2016-2020
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:05 AM   #368
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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If we keep giving Veach credit for the 2017 draft, we're screwed. The NFL is built entirely around "what have you done for me lately".

Veach had a pretty good draft in 2021, IMO. But from 2018-2020 he failed.

His personnel decisions have been pretty suspect.
We are in a transition phase. Veach made a lot of decisions to help us win a super bowl that are hurting us today. Guys like Clark, Hitchens, Mathieu, Watkins... Say what you want about them but they got the job done and let's not forget our D went from worst to pretty dominant in one offseason.

Now we're paying the piper. And two of those guys, Clark and Mathieu, are the fire for the defense and this year. They are too distracted to lead. Couple that with spags being completely off early in the season. As many have pointed out, our defense last year was good enough that arguably 1-2 pieces could have made them excellent. So I don't think the D is nearly the shit show we think it is. It's just Murphys law where any small thing that can go wrong has for this defense.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:23 AM   #369
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So, pre season Veach did everything right, now he is the problem.
Look at the roster.

The O-Line rebuild has worked and I give him total credit for that.

But he did nothing to address safety opposite Mathieu. He's poured the MOST MONEY IN THE LEAGUE into a DL and it flat out sucks. Ben Niemann STILL sees the field.

He also failed to address WR2 and it has
allowed good teams to bracket Kelce and Hill with relative ease. He made the disastrous CEH pick in the first round. No one respects our running game and we have a "first round" RB and a fairly stout o-line.

Besides the Dorsey 3 there is a dearth of talent on this team, and now that teams are figuring out how to deal with those guys the rest of the roster is getting completely exposed.

I know most people love Veach because he "discovered" Mahomes and we won a Super Bowl while he was GM (Thanks to John Dorsey players).

But he is gutting this franchise right in front of our eyes. Time to wake up and see reality.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:25 AM   #370
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My biggest gripe with Veach is the RB depth he put together after what he did with the OL. The talent in this team is fine. They just aren't playing with the same fire the past two season. Drunk off of success maybe
Bullshit. The talent is not fine.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:27 AM   #371
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We are in a transition phase. Veach made a lot of decisions to help us win a super bowl that are hurting us today. Guys like Clark, Hitchens, Mathieu, Watkins... Say what you want about them but they got the job done and let's not forget our D went from worst to pretty dominant in one offseason.

Now we're paying the piper. And two of those guys, Clark and Mathieu, are the fire for the defense and this year. They are too distracted to lead. Couple that with spags being completely off early in the season. As many have pointed out, our defense last year was good enough that arguably 1-2 pieces could have made them excellent. So I don't think the D is nearly the shit show we think it is. It's just Murphys law where any small thing that can go wrong has for this defense.
Tom Brady had 4 distinct phases of his Patriots tenure and in all those 4 phases his supporting cast was essentially completely different.

Mahomes will have the same thing. He'll have 3-4 different 'primary crews' over the course of his Chiefs career.

Now tell me - just how confident are you in Veach assembling the next one? Because that resume of his is pretty much whatever credit you want to give him for Mahomes, a coupld of good 3rd day picks and a bunch of overpays.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:30 AM   #372
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Tom Brady had 4 distinct phases of his Patriots tenure and in all those 4 phases his supporting cast was essentially completely different.

Mahomes will have the same thing. He'll have 3-4 different 'primary crews' over the course of his Chiefs career.

Now tell me - just how confident are you in Veach assembling the next one? Because that resume of his is pretty much whatever credit you want to give him for Mahomes, a coupld of good 3rd day picks and a bunch of overpays.
Well, if we are going say those overpays will lead to the same immediate success and that Mahomes is going to have 3-4 different crews over his career, I'm good with 3-4 SBs.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:30 AM   #373
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Bullshit. The talent is not fine.
The talent on the offense is fine. It should still be a 35+ game/unit. That's a truly dangerous offense but it's playing incredibly poorly.

You could tell in the first drive that it wasn't working well. A bad/unnecessary hold by Robinson, a dropped 1st down, a complete misfire to a wide open Kelce. It took them something like 13-15 plays to work themselves into FG range and I think Mahomes was something like 2 of 8 on the drive. it was ugly as sin.

And it only got worse from there. The offense is committing unforced errors even when it's executing (weeks 1-4) and last night it wasn't executing either.

Now the talent on the defense, OTOH, is clearly a major problem.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:33 AM   #374
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Well, if we are going say those overpays will lead to the same immediate success and that Mahomes is going to have 3-4 different crews over his career, I'm good with 3-4 SBs.
He won't have the luxury of those overpays anymore because now Mahomes (and Jones) are being paid to their talent levels.

So no, that's not really an option going forward. Especially if/when Kelce and Hill start to decline and their last couple of years end up with some legacy costs baked into them.

Even paying Orlando Brown a market contract next year is going to really impact the Chiefs ability to improve the rest of the roster. The days of throwing bags at luxury items like Watkins are gone. The days of overpaying for 'glue guys' like Mathieu aren't coming back.

He's going to have to do more with less going forward - especially when he has to start backfilling for the age-related declines of the Dorsey players he inherited.

I just don't know how confident anyone can be in his ability to navigate that minefield.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:36 AM   #375
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He won't have the luxury of those overpays anymore because now Mahomes (and Jones) are being paid to their talent levels.
Wasn't Mahomes' contract structured in a way that if they needed cap space they can just convert a good chunk of his salary to a signing bonus?
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