Cardinals Release WR DeAndre Hopkins [Titans, 2yr/$26 million]

[Dante84]

Interesting

Cardinals released DeAndre Hopkins. pic.twitter.com/c0f9UaabYA

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) May 26, 2023

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by KCJake

There's gotta be 30-40 NFL wide receivers better than MVS. Not being a hater, he made some big time catches down the stretch. Just stating the obvious.

He's 55th in total yards, 111th in TDs, 55th in yds/game, 6th in avg/yds, 145th in 1st downs.


Those are only 2022 season totals, so far from a complete picture, but basically he's a mid-range WR3. Or a bottom third WR2, depending on how you want to weigh it.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

He's 55th in total yards, 111th in TDs, 55th in yds/game, 6th in avg/yds, 145th in 1st downs.


Those are only 2022 season totals, so far from a complete picture, but basically he's a mid-range WR3. Or a bottom third WR2, depending on how you want to weigh it.

He is. But he's OUR WR1. Mahomes will make it work.

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by FlaChief58

Yes. The details aren't out yet, but rumor has it he signed for the league minimum just for the opportunity to wear the red and gold

Well, I still haven’t left Best Buy. Hopefully he gets here soon. I miss my family.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by KCJake

There's gotta be 30-40 NFL wide receivers better than MVS. Not being a hater, he made some big time catches down the stretch. Just stating the obvious.

I don’t disagree. Maybe even more.

I’m not talking about his production. Im talking about the role he fills in the offensive design. It’s a necessary and needed one and one at which he excels. His threat deep dictates what coverages the defense can call because without help over the top he can run away from just about any CB he’s going to see.

There are better receivers who wouldn’t create the same type of gravity in the deep areas of the field. A lot of them.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

I don't think DHop was ever really in the plans. Nothing that has been reported this year as rumor has been even remotely right.

OBJ was getting tagged - Nope, didn't even want him for cheap

Juju was a priority - Nope didn't even want him for MVS money.

Chiefs loved Frank and wanted to bring him back - Nope didn't even offer him.

The guys that report and follow this team don't actually get fed with any info. I don't think anyone in the media has any sources inside this team. The Chiefs run a tight ship and you never really hear rumors during free agency about who they'll sign.

Exactly. Would they have taken him on a vet min? Most likely. Are they interested in any sort of bidding war? Not at all.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by BWillie

He is. But he's OUR WR1. Mahomes will make it work.

Horseshit. As always.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

He's 55th in total yards, 111th in TDs, 55th in yds/game, 6th in avg/yds, 145th in 1st downs.


Those are only 2022 season totals, so far from a complete picture, but basically he's a mid-range WR3. Or a bottom third WR2, depending on how you want to weigh it.

You really don't get it. You just don't.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

You really don't get it. You just don't.

?

Pretty sure I know exactly what MVS is. Someone asked where he ranks, and I provided some data. I even admitted that those season total stats don't provide a complete picture, but it's what we have to work with, so I don't get your problem?

[Couch-Potato]

I like MVS better than Hardman in the role he fills, but Hill was "elite." I'm not saying we should trade the guy, necessarily, unless it's required to bring in D-hop for financial reasons.

I'd just prefer D-hop, and probably JuJu. Although, the deep threat argument as a differentiator to JuJu is fair in my mind bc Mahomes revived JuJu not the other way around... its just an interesting topic to discuss bc his contract stands out against what we're seemingly willing to give more notable players.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

?

Pretty sure I know exactly what MVS is. Someone asked where he ranks, and I provided some data. I even admitted that those season total stats don't provide a complete picture, but it's what we have to work with, so I don't get your problem?

WR1, WR2, WR3-these are not terms that The Chiefs think in.

That's what you don't get.

Skill-sets. What they can do, what they do for the offense, what that forces for the defense, those are terms the team is thinking in. The chess match.

MVS is not a 'bottom end WR2', he's a guy with a specific skill-set that forces opposing defenses to defend the possibility that he'll streak right by whatever CB they put on him. So the defense must make decisions, on personnel, on coverage schemes.

It's a role, and an important one that affects everything the defense does, and allows the offense a numbers advantage and stresses the rules of coverage schemes. If MVS, in normal circumstances, has a huge game, it'll be because some defensive coordinator decided to just play him in straight up man and ran by the CB several times. Most usually won't risk giving the Chiefs the easy big play.

His worth isn't about his statistical production. It's about the part he plays within the offense, and what his presence means to the defense.

This is what I mean when I say that you like to post 'data' with no relation at all to context as if it's the be-all-end-all. Data is meaningless without context.

If you measure MVS by raw numbers only, you're missing half of the picture.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

WR1, WR2, WR3-these are not terms that The Chiefs think in.

That's what you don't get.

Skill-sets. What they can do, what they do for the offense, what that forces for the defense, those are terms the team is thinking in. The chess match.

MVS is not a 'bottom end WR2', he's a guy with a specific skill-set that forces opposing defenses to defend the possibility that he'll streak right by whatever CB they put on him. So the defense must make decisions, on personnel, on coverage schemes.

It's a role, and an important one that affects everything the defense does, and allows the offense a numbers advantage and stresses the rules of coverage schemes. If MVS, in normal circumstances, has a huge game, it'll be because some defensive coordinator decided to just play him in straight up man and ran by the CB several times. Most usually won't risk giving the Chiefs the easy big play.

His worth isn't about his statistical production. It's about the part he plays within the offense, and what his presence means to the defense.

This is what I mean when I say that you like to post 'data' with no relation at all to context as if it's the be-all-end-all. Data is meaningless without context.

If you measure MVS by raw numbers only, you're missing half of the picture.

Um, sometime around the middle of last season I specifically stated that MVS is a role player, specifically a vertical stretch role player who's primary responsibility was to force the S deeper, opening up the intermediate zones. I've been saying that for more than 7 months, defending MVS's role, when others were shitting on him last year. Maybe you could remember that.



But the question I just responded to was more general, as in 'how does he rank overall,' or words to that effect. And overall, his stats say he's a low second tier WR in the NFL, at best.

Regardless, his stats say he's a limited WR, or a role player, over his entire 5-year career. He's not an all-arounder, and when compared to all-around WRs, he falls to about 50-70th.


And btw, this statement: "If MVS, in normal circumstances, has a huge game, it'll be because some defensive coordinator decided to just play him in straight up man and ran by the CB several times. Most usually won't risk giving the Chiefs the easy big play."

That's 'speculation.' Because you can't know what was in a DC's mind for certain. You're making a guess. That's not context.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Um, sometime around the middle of last season I specifically stated that MVS is a role player, specifically a vertical stretch role player who's primary responsibility was to force the S deeper, opening up the intermediate zones. I've been saying that for more than 7 months, defending MVS's role, when others were shitting on him last year. Maybe you could remember that.



But the question I just responded to was more general, as in 'how does he rank overall,' or words to that effect. And overall, his stats say he's a low second tier WR in the NFL, at best.

Regardless, his stats say he's a limited WR, or a role player, over his entire 5-year career. He's not an all-arounder, and when compared to all-around WRs, he falls to about 50-70th.


And btw, this statement: "If MVS, in normal circumstances, has a huge game, it'll be because some defensive coordinator decided to just play him in straight up man and ran by the CB several times. Most usually won't risk giving the Chiefs the easy big play."

That's 'speculation.' Because you can't know what was in a DC's mind for certain. You're making a guess. That's not context.

You specifically said he's a mid-range WR3 or a lower third WR2. That's cool that you'd previously expressed an understanding of his role and therefore importance in the offense, but in THIS reponse, you said he's a mid-range WR3. That's only by actual numbers, or as I said, data without any context, which is your go-to for any football argument.

The very language used in this comment is fantasy football speak and has no weight whatsoever in actual football.

As for my 'speculation', I think it's pretty logical that a big game from MVS that doesn't include Marcus Kemp taking meaningful snaps would mean that within MVS's game (and we agree, it's as the deep threat) a DC would have to be NOT employing a deep safety, effectively leaving MVS one on one. Like, maybe deciding that Kelce was NOT going to beat them and taking their chances with MVS instead.

It is also possible, I suppose, that Andy might just figure out a way to get a mismatch on a specific opponent that just doesn't have the team speed to deal with MVS and KC can utilize him in other ways, but the first speculation would be most likely; simply outrunning a CB in one-on-one snaps.

Just speculation, as you say. Also, it's football 101. And this is a football board, and all anyone is doing here is speculating, you included, no matter how much you want to rely on your context-less 'data'.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

You specifically said he's a mid-range WR3 or a lower third WR2. That's cool that you'd previously expressed an understanding of his role and therefore importance in the offense, but in THIS reponse, you said he's a mid-range WR3. That's only by actual numbers, or as I said, data without any context, which is your go-to for any football argument.

The very language used in this comment is fantasy football speak and has no weight whatsoever in actual football.

As for my 'speculation', I think it's pretty logical that a big game from MVS that doesn't include Marcus Kemp taking meaningful snaps would mean that within MVS's game (and we agree, it's as the deep threat) a DC would have to be NOT employing a deep safety, effectively leaving MVS one on one. Like, maybe deciding that Kelce was NOT going to beat them and taking their chances with MVS instead.

It is also possible, I suppose, that Andy might just figure out a way to get a mismatch on a specific opponent that just doesn't have the team speed to deal with MVS and KC can utilize him in other ways, but the first speculation would be most likely; simply outrunning a CB in one-on-one snaps.

Just speculation, as you say. Also, it's football 101. And this is a football board, and all anyone is doing here is speculating, you included, no matter how much you want to rely on your context-less 'data'.

I responded to someone saying he "was probably the 40th best WR," implying by omission of any qualifiers, that the poster meant 'overall.'

As such, MVS is statistically somewhat below that, but whatever; he's not a top-20 (or even 30) WR, OVERALL.


And I quite clearly stated that the stats I used were for the 2022 season only, and that they "provided an incomplete picture." But at least I provided some statistical data, as context.


If you're going to state that "DCs changed the way they called a game," with respect to MVS, without that being conjecture, you need to provide 'context' by supplying some stats or video clips, or even reference a particular game or games.

As another example:

"DHop would eat up too many targets." Speculation.

"DHop only dropped three passes last season, and also is one of the few WRs with a zero drop season (more than 100 targets), making him one of the most efficient WRs in the NFL, and not likely to absorb too many targets." Statistical context.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by In58men

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Lol, wrong again. How shocking.

Where am I wrong dumb shit? I don't give a **** about what Albert Breer says, when has he gotten anything right about KC? I said no one knows what's going on inside the organization and everything that gets reported as what the Chiefs want doesn't even happen, so the other dipshit posts a tweet from a hack and somehow both of you tards think that proves me wrong?

Also where are those stats that prove the Chiefs offense wasn't good? You gonna post those, mouth breather?

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

WR1, WR2, WR3-these are not terms that The Chiefs think in.

That's what you don't get.

Skill-sets. What they can do, what they do for the offense, what that forces for the defense, those are terms the team is thinking in. The chess match.

MVS is not a 'bottom end WR2', he's a guy with a specific skill-set that forces opposing defenses to defend the possibility that he'll streak right by whatever CB they put on him. So the defense must make decisions, on personnel, on coverage schemes.

It's a role, and an important one that affects everything the defense does, and allows the offense a numbers advantage and stresses the rules of coverage schemes. If MVS, in normal circumstances, has a huge game, it'll be because some defensive coordinator decided to just play him in straight up man and ran by the CB several times. Most usually won't risk giving the Chiefs the easy big play.

His worth isn't about his statistical production. It's about the part he plays within the offense, and what his presence means to the defense.

This is what I mean when I say that you like to post 'data' with no relation at all to context as if it's the be-all-end-all. Data is meaningless without context.

If you measure MVS by raw numbers only, you're missing half of the picture.

Fantasy football has destroyed the general understanding of football. Football is more than just stats.