***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[Titty Meat]

Let's clarify this for a second. Arguing the effectiveness of a stay in place isnt a political argument. There seems to be some confusion about this during the conversation.

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Yeah, cause that's what I said....dude, ****ing stop the gotcha bullshit. Either address what I said or leave it alone and move along.

"More people have this than we know"

That means undiagnosed cases, which is clearly correct. This isn't gotcha. Who is disagreeing with that?

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Initially yes then it ratcheted down.

Yes..I know. They lagged behind Saint Joseph.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

How does that make your point? That's no different than how other condition are reported

They're making it clear that they don't want Covid-19 excluded from death certificates If it is a contributing factor.

Did you actually read the part you quoted? What part of the word assumed are you not getting?

As I stated and has been stated by others, people are being listed as dying from Covid even if it may not have been the cause. Stating it as a possible contributing factor and stating it as the cause, assumed or otherwise, is two entirely different things.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

The article you linked

“COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death,” reads*CDC guidance*issued in March. “Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II.”

Seems reasonable

The other part of the article that I did NOT link...also stated we ironically have a significant drop in heart attack and stroke cases to the tune of up to 60%.

Do you think there is just the slightest chance that people are dying from such but for whatever reason it's being linked too or identified as Covid?

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Did you actually read the part you quoted? What part of the word assumed are you not getting?

As I stated and has been stated by others, people are being listed as dying from Covid even if it may not have been the cause. Stating it as a possible contributing factor and stating it as the cause, assumed or otherwise, is two entirely different things.

In my opinion, it is not.

If someone develops sepsis during a hospital stay from Covid-19, cause of death is Covid 19

Someone dies from Torsade de pointes from Plaquenil during an ICU stay for Covid-19, cause of death is Covid 19.

Someone develops pleural edema due to overly aggressive IV fluids while in the hospital for Covid 19, cause of death is Covid 19.

There is a reason why cardiac arrest shouldn't be listed as cause of death, and that's because it isn't useful or meaningful

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

The other part of the article that I did NOT link...also stated we ironically have a significant drop in heart attack and stroke cases to the tune of up to 60%.

Do you think there is just the slightest chance that people are dying from such but for whatever reason it's being linked too or identified as Covid?

I think a lot of these people are dying at home. That's what the cardiologist in the article suggested

Are some patients being misattributed, sure, but as is the case with pandemic death reports, the virus is more under-reported than over-reported

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

In my opinion, it is not.

If someone develops sepsis during a hospital stay from Covid-19, cause of death is Covid 19

Someone dies from Torsade de pointes from Plaquenil during an ICU stay for Covid-19, cause of death is Covid 19.

Someone develops pleural edema due to overly aggressive IV fluids while in the hospital for Covid 19, cause of death is Covid 19.

There is a reason why cardiac arrest shouldn't be listed as cause of death, and that's because it isn't useful or meaningful

And what if someone dies of a heart attack or stroke but tests positive from Covid but was actually asymptomatic? How do you think that's being recorded? According to Birx and others it's Covid.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

I think a lot of these people are dying at home. That's what the cardiologist in the article suggested

That was one possible scenario based on an assumption that they didn't want to go to the hospital in fear of catching Covid. I can tell you I think most people would risk that if they were having a heart attack as opposed to opting to just die at home because they are afraid they might get a virus that might kill them if they go to the hospital.

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

And what if someone dies of a heart attack or stroke but tests positive from Covid but was actually asymptomatic? How do you think that's being recorded? According to Birx and others it's Covid.

“There are other countries, that if you have a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus called you to go to the ICU (intensive care unit) and then have a heart or kidney problem,” she explained. “Some countries are recording that as a kidney issue, or a heart issue, and not a COVID-19 death.”

I would not agree with attributing an asymptomatic person with a positive test as having does from Covid-19. Where are you reading that?

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

That was one possible scenario based on an assumption that they didn't want to go to the hospital in fear of catching Covid. I can tell you I think most people would risk that if they were having a heart attack as opposed to opting to just die at home because they are afraid they might get a virus that might kill them if they go to the hospital.

New York is reporting unprecedented numbers of deaths at home. These are not being recorded as Covid-19 deaths. Are you suggesting they should be, or do you think people are staying home with serious conditons because of fear of Covid-19?

I will agree with the cardiologist on this one, but the truth is likely somewhere in the middle

Either it is people staying home with serious conditions, or under-reported deaths from Covid-19. Thoughts?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

“There are other countries, that if you have a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus called you to go to the ICU (intensive care unit) and then have a heart or kidney problem,” she explained. “Some countries are recording that as a kidney issue, or a heart issue, and not a COVID-19 death.”

I would not agree with attributing an asymptomatic person with a positive test as having does from Covid-19. Where are you reading that?

I don't care about "countries". We are not doing that and she stated so. They are marking you down as Covid if you even show symptoms. You read the article. You posted the quotes even. If they even ASSSUME Covid was involved they are saying Covid killed you regardless.

Now whether that's a good thing or bad thing I don't know but I know it's a good way to fluff the death rate and scare the **** out of people.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

New York is reporting unprecedented numbers of deaths at home. These are not being recorded as Covid-19 deaths. Are you suggesting they should be, or do you think people are staying home with serious conditons because of fear of Covid-19?

I will agree with the cardiologist on this one, but the truth is likely somewhere in the middle

According to to what was posted today they are starting too.

I am not suggesting anything. The cardiologist you referenced in the article suggested that. And it's ridiculous on its very face. Why the **** would someone choose to die at home from a heart attack because they are afraid if they go to the hospital that they might catch a virus that might kill them?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by SupDock

New York is reporting unprecedented numbers of deaths at home. These are not being recorded as Covid-19 deaths. Are you suggesting they should be, or do you think people are staying home with serious conditons because of fear of Covid-19?

I will agree with the cardiologist on this one, but the truth is likely somewhere in the middle

Either it is people staying home with serious conditions, or under-reported deaths from Covid-19. Thoughts?

Read this carefully...

“What is striking is that many of the emergencies have disappeared,” the doctor continued. “Heart attack and stroke teams, always poised to rush in and save lives, are mostly idle. This is not just at my hospital. My fellow cardiologists have shared with me that their cardiology consultations have shrunk, except those related to Covid-19. In an informal Twitter poll by @angioplastyorg, an online community of cardiologists, almost half of the respondents reported that they are seeing a 40 percent to 60 percent reduction in admissions for heart attacks; about 20 percent reported more than a 60 percent reduction.”

Dr. Krumholz chalked up the drop to scared Americans, apparently dying in their homes instead of going to a hospital where they might catch COVID-19:

The most concerning possible explanation is that people stay home and suffer rather than risk coming to the hospital and getting infected with coronavirus. This theory suggests that Covid-19 has instilled fear of face-to-face medical care. As a result, many people with urgent health problems may be opting to remain at home rather than call for help.

This guy is saying people are choosing to stay home and die of a heart attack instead of risking getting a virus that might kill them. I am sorry but I think if you are having a stroke or heart attack you are going to chance getting Covid because you're gonna ****ing die if you don't

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by petegz28

According to to what was posted today they are starting too.

I am not suggesting anything. The cardiologist you referenced in the article suggested that. And it's ridiculous on its very face. Why the **** would someone choose to die at home from a heart attack because they are afraid if they go to the hospital that they might catch a virus that might kill them?

Yet, more.people are dying at home. It is either people refusing to seek care or . . .?

As for cause of death, you are exactly right , if they think Covid-19 contributed to the death, they write it down. Which is what they should do.