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Old 01-06-2024, 02:59 PM   #2
wazu wazu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Cooper View Post
How many playoff wins would Gonzalez have with Mahomes?

If not for Mahomes, Kelce has a similar career in Kansas City as Gonzalez did. Great numbers but little playoff success playing with the Alex Smith/Trent Green/Damon Huard type retreads.
Obviously Mahomes helps, but Gonzo had really bad numbers in playoff games compared to what he did in the regular season.

For Comparison:

Tony Gonzales Playoff Game Averages:

Catches: 3.2
Yards: 31.4
TDs: .4

Travis Kelce Playoff Game Averages:

Catches: 7.4
Yards: 86
TDs: .9
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Old 01-06-2024, 03:32 PM   #3
Gary Cooper Gary Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by wazu View Post
Obviously Mahomes helps, but Gonzo had really bad numbers in playoff games compared to what he did in the regular season.

For Comparison:

Tony Gonzales Playoff Game Averages:

Catches: 3.2
Yards: 31.4
TDs: .4

Travis Kelce Playoff Game Averages:

Catches: 7.4
Yards: 86
TDs: .9
He played in three playoff games as a Chief. That's it. You can't make comparisons off that sample size. The best player in the league at his position and plays in three playoff games over 12 years. That's Barry Sanders type sad.

1997
2003
2006

He was only 21 in 1997. Caught a TD in the playoff game. Had another TD that was disallowed on a controversial play. He certainly made more impact in that game than in the regular season.

In 2003, it was the famous No Punt Game. He had 4 catches for 55 yards. One TD that was disallowed on a controversial PI. You can't blame Gonzalez for that loss. The offense didn't punt the entire game.

In 2006, that was the Herman Edwards game. No first downs in the first half. Unimaginative playcalling. Gonzalez had a TD late in the game in garbage time. Kelce wouldn't win that game by himself either.
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Old 01-06-2024, 03:01 PM   #4
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Originally Posted by Gary Cooper View Post
How many playoff wins would Gonzalez have with Mahomes?

If not for Mahomes, Kelce has a similar career in Kansas City as Gonzalez did. Great numbers but little playoff success playing with the Alex Smith/Trent Green/Damon Huard type retreads.
But no guarantee Gonzalez has the career kelce did considering how much of it was due to Kelces off the charts football iq and leadership. Maybe that makes Gonzo a better weapon with a qb who loves to lob up jumpballs. But id easily take kelce if you've got a good qb.
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Old 01-06-2024, 01:37 PM   #5
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Patriots did something interesting by voiding Lawrence guys tackle incentive and just giving it to him anyway.

Is that something we consider for Chris jones? I know, I know... **** that guy for holding out. But it may be a way for the chiefs to give positive vibes while giving jones a chance to rest
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Old 01-06-2024, 01:49 PM   #6
wazu wazu is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Patriots did something interesting by voiding Lawrence guys tackle incentive and just giving it to him anyway.

Is that something we consider for Chris jones? I know, I know... **** that guy for holding out. But it may be a way for the chiefs to give positive vibes while giving jones a chance to rest
It's absolutely the thing to do. Would be just stupid for him to play tomorrow. Nobody wants that.
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Old 01-06-2024, 01:55 PM   #7
Rausch Rausch is offline
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It's absolutely the thing to do. Would be just stupid for him to play tomorrow. Nobody wants that.
Yup.

Perhaps the team wants to save a penny but an injury to a player in a meaningless game that permanently changes their career throws away an entire contract instead of a small bonus.

Spend a nickel to save a dollar.
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Old 01-06-2024, 02:00 PM   #8
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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It's absolutely the thing to do. Would be just stupid for him to play tomorrow. Nobody wants that.
Yup, and while I'd rather keep the $ we also aren't Sean Payton and a happy Chris jones is good for playoff business
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Old 01-06-2024, 02:23 PM   #9
stevegroganfan stevegroganfan is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Patriots did something interesting by voiding Lawrence guys tackle incentive and just giving it to him anyway.

Is that something we consider for Chris jones? I know, I know... **** that guy for holding out. But it may be a way for the chiefs to give positive vibes while giving jones a chance to rest
For all of their frugality and sometimes tough negotiating with veterans, the Patriots were more than fair with incentives. Sometimes players got them for coming close enough even if they played in all of the games. And in situation in which the coaches rested players, pretty much any makable incentive was either 100% paid out or something close to that.

With Jones I'd just pay him his incentive or at least 90% of it and don't play him a single snap. I'd bet that is what the Chiefs do. It isn't in Jones or the Chiefs interests to have him play this game and get hurt trying to get 10 sacks for the year. The HOF won't care so just pay him his money and be done with it.

It sends a good message to the other players as well.
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Old 01-06-2024, 03:08 PM   #10
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Kelce is much better after the catch.. Tony overpowered DBs and LBs for catches.. Travis singlehanded won OT games. Tony was the difference in some of his games..

I prefer Kelce but there is an argument for Tony.. Travis 1A, Tony1B...
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Old 01-06-2024, 03:42 PM   #11
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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Kelce is much better after the catch.. Tony overpowered DBs and LBs for catches.. Travis singlehanded won OT games. Tony was the difference in some of his games..

I prefer Kelce but there is an argument for Tony.. Travis 1A, Tony1B...

Kelce had Mahomes in comparison to the merry go round at QB for Gonzalez. LOL, with Patrick Tony probably have better production that could dwarf Travis.
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Old 01-06-2024, 06:40 PM   #12
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Kelce had Mahomes in comparison to the merry go round at QB for Gonzalez. LOL, with Patrick Tony probably have better production that could dwarf Travis.
come on now
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Old 01-06-2024, 03:40 PM   #13
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Gonzalez had way better hands than Kelce and I think he fumbled less. Kelce is more explosive though.

Id take Kelce but I could see how someone could make a good case that Gonzalez was the better TE.
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Old 01-06-2024, 03:45 PM   #14
Gary Cooper Gary Cooper is offline
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Gonzalez had way better hands than Kelce and I think he fumbled less. Kelce is more explosive though.

Id take Kelce but I could see how someone could make a good case that Gonzalez was the better TE.
Gonzalez had the better hands and better at physically dominating defenders He would run them over and take the ball out of their hands on jump balls.

Kelce is much faster and despite a similar size as Tony G, he runs away from defenders rather than through them. He plays more like a WR after the catch.

Kelce is a better fit for Mahomes and this offense, but I view Tony Gonzalez in the playoffs much like I view Barry Sanders in the playoffs. I'm not going to criticize it considering the larger context.
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Old 01-06-2024, 03:55 PM   #15
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Tony Gonzalez would run straight for 15 yards and just make a jump ball catch. He made a career out of it. Very different style of TE than Kelce.
Last edited by BWillie; 01-06-2024 at 07:06 PM..
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