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Old 06-06-2022, 04:21 PM   #2
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I'm going to guess it can climb faster than that.
That's 4100 ft/minute, no?

That's pretty damn severe, especially for a sub-sonic trainer. About 7 times what a Cessna is rated for.

I'm guessing it just doesn't have the power to simply go nose up and rocket without running out of inertia and stalling. It looks like a maneuverable little thing but doesn't seem like it's incredibly powerful.
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Old 06-06-2022, 06:56 PM   #3
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That's 4100 ft/minute, no?

That's pretty damn severe, especially for a sub-sonic trainer. About 7 times what a Cessna is rated for.

I'm guessing it just doesn't have the power to simply go nose up and rocket without running out of inertia and stalling. It looks like a maneuverable little thing but doesn't seem like it's incredibly powerful.
Performance isn’t usually published in m/s. It’s usually meters or feet per minute, hence my error.

A fun side fact. F-16s and SU-27s climb around 75,000 feet per minute. You won’t find an official number, though. Secrets and stuff.
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Old 06-06-2022, 07:54 PM   #4
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Performance isn’t usually published in m/s. It’s usually meters or feet per minute, hence my error.

A fun side fact. F-16s and SU-27s climb around 75,000 feet per minute. You won’t find an official number, though. Secrets and stuff.
Yeah, anything with that kind of power to weight ratio is gonna go up almost as fast as it can go forward.

The F-16’s really is/was amazing. That kind of performance and agility at those price tags just doesn’t happen often. Really a remarkable service history for the ‘cheap’ option in our fleet. They set out to build a low-cost alternative to the F-15 and ended up with a damn workhorse. Remarkable work there.
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Old 06-06-2022, 08:03 PM   #5
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Yeah, anything with that kind of power to weight ratio is gonna go up almost as fast as it can go forward.

The F-16’s really is/was amazing. That kind of performance and agility at those price tags just doesn’t happen often. Really a remarkable service history for the ‘cheap’ option in our fleet. They set out to build a low-cost alternative to the F-15 and ended up with a damn workhorse. Remarkable work there.
And the F-18 was born out of the competition between the YF-17 and 16. The YF-17 was derived from the F-5.

The F-18 has amazing nose authority that rivals the Su-27/35 and MIG-29/35.


The F-16 is an absolute monster at maintaining energy while doing combat maneuvers. The F-16 XL is amazing in different ways, just didn't have two engines like the Strike Eagle so it lost.
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Old 06-06-2022, 08:18 PM   #6
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And the F-18 was born out of the competition between the YF-17 and 16. The YF-17 was derived from the F-5.

The F-18 has amazing nose authority that rivals the Su-27/35 and MIG-29/35.


The F-16 is an absolute monster at maintaining energy while doing combat maneuvers. The F-16 XL is amazing in different ways, just didn't have two engines like the Strike Eagle so it lost.
Yeah - dunno why but the F-18 sorta became the red-headed step-child of the 4th generation fighters. Always seemed overlook but a remarkably versatile and effective platform in its own right.

It doesn’t have thrust vectoring, does it? What gives it that kind of ability to maneuver like that? I thought thrust vectoring was kinda what made that kind of nose authority possible? Definitely a bit over my skiis there…
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Old 06-07-2022, 07:23 AM   #7
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Yeah - dunno why but the F-18 sorta became the red-headed step-child of the 4th generation fighters. Always seemed overlook but a remarkably versatile and effective platform in its own right.

It doesn’t have thrust vectoring, does it? What gives it that kind of ability to maneuver like that? I thought thrust vectoring was kinda what made that kind of nose authority possible? Definitely a bit over my skiis there…

The wing extensions on each side of the canopy (greatly enlarged from the YF-17 to F-18) are what gives it amazing nose control at all speeds. If an opponent gets a little slow against an 18 it's ****ed.




The only plane that has thrust vectoring (and only 2 dimensional) is the F-22, for the US. I guess the Marine F-35 counts, but I think it's only used for takeoff and landing just like the Harrier.

Our designers determined there is way too much energy lost while using 3 dimensional vectoring. The Russians have it on a few planes, and they appear to defy physics.

It would be on everything if the US determined it increases lethality.
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