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Direckshun · 05-02-2021, 09:02 AM

The idea that he has players in layered tiers is not new, of course.

But here's the problem with it: in any tier you care to look at, the most valuable positions get drafted first, because of course they should. Quarterback, tackle, wide receiver, passrusher.

The last players to be chosen in any tier are going to be the lowest value players.

Running back. Linebacker. Interior offensive line.

And here we are. That's been the Chiefs last four picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft.

It's just not a great approach when you're always at the end of the round, which the Chiefs always will be under Reid and Mahomes. You need to be able to be more flexible.

The Chiefs selected a linebacker (which we do desperately need) and a center (which we kinda needed) when there were really good players in a lower tier still on the board.

How much better is Humphrey going to be than Blythe? Really?

Because remember that when we struggle to get a passrush in December, January, and February. Remember that in the Super Bowl when the Bucs run out the exact same coverage that blanketed us the first time and we still don't have a WR2 that can break free of 1 on 1 coverage. Remember that when, god forbid, one of our corners go down with injury in week 7 and we have to watch Rashad Fenton get raked for 8 weeks.

That being said, the Chiefs did get better this weekend. They just could have gotten a lot better this weekend, with how sexy the board looked when they were up to pick.

Pick by pick reviews.

LB Nick Bolton, Missouri -- The Chiefs probably have the best linebacking corps now that they've had in a decade. Hitchens finally seems to understand the system, Gay looked really solid all year and came on until his injury, and Bolton's going to be really good. He's a smart player with limited athleticism, so really a perfect Spags linebacker. But he may be a two-down player, and I see a lot of Kawika Mitchell in him -- neither of those are deserving of the 2nd round pick we spent. C-

C Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma -- I think Humphrey has Pro Bowl upside, and honestly the Chiefs track record on 2nd round centers is stellar with Mitch Morse and Rodney Hudson. I think he's going to be a starter here for 10 years. I'd had preferred other players, but this was a good get. A-

DE Joshua Kaindoh, Florida State -- I really don't like this pick, and only talked myself into it the day of the draft because we are so desperate at the position. Kaindoh has every bit of the size you need, but he just has no feel for the game. This is a Demetrius-Harris-sized project. Harris turned out to be pretty good, but it took us four years to get there. Kaindoh may yield the same returns at a different position. D+

TE Noah Gray, Duke -- I really hope the loss of Anthony Sherman didn't mess with our heads badly enough to take this guy, as the team later was communicating he could be a flex fullback. It's hard for me to get too worked up about Gray, however, one way or the other. I think he's fine, but a poor fit, but the 5th round on was just garbage in terms of options. C+

WR Cornell Powell, Clemson -- The questions with Powell entirely will be between the ears. He is already physically maxed out and is pretty great with the ball in his hands. I imagine he will peak out in a couple seaons as a WR3 in our offense, but if the Chiefs continue to fail to find a really good WR2, he could ascend to a shrug-WR2, someone to play the position non-pathetically until we find the next Sammy Watkins. I think his ceiling is Chris Conley, which is nothing to write home about, but that's a really great get in a draft this garbage. B+

OG Tre Smith, Tennessee -- Home run. No question. This is why you don't burn $80m on a guard, or draft one in the 2nd round. Dorsey made his living finding really good guards late in the draft, and Veach has finally done it himself. Smith will not crack the lineup this year, but he's going to be our starting RG in 2022 -- bank on it. I have no idea how Veach landed this, when it was late in the 6th round and teams were just taking long snappers because there was no talent left on the board. A+

**The Franchise** · 05-02-2021, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I actually think Danna will be a good rotational DE. Same with Taco. And, by Year 2, I feel the same about Kaindoh.

But we need a starter. We do not have a DE2, and we passed on several plum candidates to take Bolton and Humphrey.

At least Humphrey is going to make a Pro Bowl. Bolton’s going to be fine.

Who? Basham?

Direckshun · 05-02-2021, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

So you want them to move this guys down because positional value and miss out on them for lower tiered players of higher positional value?

And this is why I hate tiers.

The idea that a guy is in a lower tier clearly denotes him as a step down— but some of these guys aren’t huge steps down.

And if you gave me the choice of an A linebacker and a C passrusher, or an A passrusher and a C linebacker, I know which one is take.

**The Franchise** · 05-02-2021, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

And this is why I hate tiers.

The idea that a guy is in a lower tier clearly denotes him as a step down— but some of these guys aren’t huge steps down.

And if you gave me the choice of an A linebacker and a C passrusher, or an A passrusher and a C linebacker, I know which one is take.

Except they might not have seen Basham as an A pass rusher. We don’t know how they had him valued.

O.city · 05-02-2021, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I actually think Danna will be a good rotational DE. Same with Taco. And, by Year 2, I feel the same about Kaindoh.

But we need a starter. We do not have a DE2, and we passed on several plum candidates to take Bolton and Humphrey.

At least Humphrey is going to make a Pro Bowl. Bolton’s going to be fine.

If you want a legit DE, you’re either gonna have to go the frank clark route and trade for one or take one likely in the first round.

**The Franchise** · 05-02-2021, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

If you want a legit DE, you’re either gonna have to go the frank clark route and trade for one or take one likely in the first round.

And a ton of those guys went late first. No way were we trading up that high to get one of the bottom. That’s how you get Speaks 2.0.

staylor26 · 05-02-2021, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

That was pretty early in the draft process. He’s a good player, I’m just not a fan of back to back lber in the 2nd with what was on the board but they had him rated high, and when that falls that way you take them.

So you were fine with LB in the 1st after going LB in the 2nd last year back then, but LB in the 2nd two years in a row is bad?

**The Franchise** · 05-02-2021, 09:36 AM

Everyone okay with the Cardinals taking two LBs with back to back top 20 picks?

staylor26 · 05-02-2021, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Everyone okay with the Cardinals taking two LBs with back to back top 20 picks?

Now that’s a positional argument that I totally understand. Those were top 20 ****ing picks. Not 32, 58, and 63. Completely different ball game.

**The Franchise** · 05-02-2021, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Now that’s a positional argument that I totally understand. Those were top 20 ****ing picks. Not 32, 58, and 63. Completely different ball game.

I’m just saying. If I was a Cardinals fan...I would be pissed at the Zaven Collins pick right now.

staylor26 · 05-02-2021, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

I’m just saying. If I was a Cardinals fan...I would be pissed at the Zaven Collins pick right now.

Absolutely. I was agreeing with you.

But the issue is people like Direckshun are so concerned with positional value that they overlook real value.

Bolton and Humphrey were consensus top 40-50 guys at the very least that some had going in the 1st round.

To get that at 58 and 63 IS value.

Do the Chiefs not have a need at those positions? If they work out, are the Chiefs not getting value having a starting C and MLB on rookie deals as opposed to paying market value at those positions to fill a need in free agency? Value is value.

O.city · 05-02-2021, 09:43 AM

I worry with Bolton that he’s a stiff lber who ends up being a 2 down player but all my Mu buddies love the guy and say he’ll work hard to become more than that.

Eric kendricks type player is the upside so if that hits were in great shape

O.city · 05-02-2021, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

So you were fine with LB in the 1st after going LB in the 2nd last year back then, but LB in the 2nd two years in a row is bad?

I thought he was a legit top 20ish dude and if he fell yeah it wouldn’t be ideal but the value is too tough to pass. I don’t think they’d have taken him at 31 but you can’t pass the way it worked out

**The Franchise** · 05-02-2021, 09:45 AM

A LB at 58 when one of your weakest positions on defense is LB....is not a bad pick.

But you’ve got teams like the Cardinals who just took another LB or the Jags who took a 3rd down RB in the first round and all the talking heads are in love with those picks.

O.city · 05-02-2021, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Everyone okay with the Cardinals taking two LBs with back to back top 20 picks?

I think they view him more of a pass rushing lber/de.

I don’t like it but with those two the upside is so high in what they can be I guess it makes sense

**The Franchise** · 05-02-2021, 09:46 AM

Bolton is worth the fact that when Hitchens gets tired or hurt....we won’t have to see Niemann come into the field at MLB.

05-02-2021, 09:02 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch	I am not a fan of Veach's "tier" approach. The idea that he has players in layered tiers is not new, of course. But here's the problem with it: in any tier you care to look at, the most valuable positions get drafted first, because of course they should. Quarterback, tackle, wide receiver, passrusher. The last players to be chosen in any tier are going to be the lowest value players. Running back. Linebacker. Interior offensive line. And here we are. That's been the Chiefs last four picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft. It's just not a great approach when you're always at the end of the round, which the Chiefs always will be under Reid and Mahomes. You need to be able to be more flexible. The Chiefs selected a linebacker (which we do desperately need) and a center (which we kinda needed) when there were really good players in a lower tier still on the board. How much better is Humphrey going to be than Blythe? Really? Because remember that when we struggle to get a passrush in December, January, and February. Remember that in the Super Bowl when the Bucs run out the exact same coverage that blanketed us the first time and we still don't have a WR2 that can break free of 1 on 1 coverage. Remember that when, god forbid, one of our corners go down with injury in week 7 and we have to watch Rashad Fenton get raked for 8 weeks. That being said, the Chiefs did get better this weekend. They just could have gotten a lot better this weekend, with how sexy the board looked when they were up to pick. Pick by pick reviews. LB Nick Bolton, Missouri -- The Chiefs probably have the best linebacking corps now that they've had in a decade. Hitchens finally seems to understand the system, Gay looked really solid all year and came on until his injury, and Bolton's going to be really good. He's a smart player with limited athleticism, so really a perfect Spags linebacker. But he may be a two-down player, and I see a lot of Kawika Mitchell in him -- neither of those are deserving of the 2nd round pick we spent. C- C Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma -- I think Humphrey has Pro Bowl upside, and honestly the Chiefs track record on 2nd round centers is stellar with Mitch Morse and Rodney Hudson. I think he's going to be a starter here for 10 years. I'd had preferred other players, but this was a good get. A- DE Joshua Kaindoh, Florida State -- I really don't like this pick, and only talked myself into it the day of the draft because we are so desperate at the position. Kaindoh has every bit of the size you need, but he just has no feel for the game. This is a Demetrius-Harris-sized project. Harris turned out to be pretty good, but it took us four years to get there. Kaindoh may yield the same returns at a different position. D+ TE Noah Gray, Duke -- I really hope the loss of Anthony Sherman didn't mess with our heads badly enough to take this guy, as the team later was communicating he could be a flex fullback. It's hard for me to get too worked up about Gray, however, one way or the other. I think he's fine, but a poor fit, but the 5th round on was just garbage in terms of options. C+ WR Cornell Powell, Clemson -- The questions with Powell entirely will be between the ears. He is already physically maxed out and is pretty great with the ball in his hands. I imagine he will peak out in a couple seaons as a WR3 in our offense, but if the Chiefs continue to fail to find a really good WR2, he could ascend to a shrug-WR2, someone to play the position non-pathetically until we find the next Sammy Watkins. I think his ceiling is Chris Conley, which is nothing to write home about, but that's a really great get in a draft this garbage. B+ OG Tre Smith, Tennessee -- Home run. No question. This is why you don't burn $80m on a guard, or draft one in the 2nd round. Dorsey made his living finding really good guards late in the draft, and Veach has finally done it himself. Smith will not crack the lineup this year, but he's going to be our starting RG in 2022 -- bank on it. I have no idea how Veach landed this, when it was late in the 6th round and teams were just taking long snappers because there was no talent left on the board. A+
Posts: 59,533

05-02-2021, 09:36 AM	#22
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain The Franchise's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2006	Everyone okay with the Cardinals taking two LBs with back to back top 20 picks?
Posts: 92,316

05-02-2021, 09:43 AM	#26
O.city In Search of a Life O.city's Avatar Join Date: Jul 2009	I worry with Bolton that he’s a stiff lber who ends up being a 2 down player but all my Mu buddies love the guy and say he’ll work hard to become more than that. Eric kendricks type player is the upside so if that hits were in great shape
Posts: 82,823

05-02-2021, 09:45 AM	#28
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain The Franchise's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2006	A LB at 58 when one of your weakest positions on defense is LB....is not a bad pick. But you’ve got teams like the Cardinals who just took another LB or the Jags who took a 3rd down RB in the first round and all the talking heads are in love with those picks.
Posts: 92,316

05-02-2021, 09:46 AM	#30
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain The Franchise's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2006	Bolton is worth the fact that when Hitchens gets tired or hurt....we won’t have to see Niemann come into the field at MLB.
Posts: 92,316