Moving Nationally or Internationally

[BIG_DADDY]

If you were going to move would you consider an international move ever? If you were going to pick another spot in the good old USA where would you like to be? For me I could see Austin in my not too distant future. If our country goes hard left I would have to look at the options at that time but I am going to start the process next year. I would love to look at Panama. I have seen several clients and friends move over the years. The most popular places have been Costa Rica, Philippines, Equador and Brazil but I know a lot of Brazilians. i can't forget Monaco for those with a lot of cash.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Her nominal reason is that it's too hot, but I think she also dislikes the reputation of the city. She's only been there once and we stayed on the Strip, and she's really not into the casino scene at all. But I think big chunks of Vegas have nothing to do with the casino scene, so that shouldn't be particularly relevant to a long-term living decision.

At some point I'll give her a powerpoint presentation or something, and we'll see if I can broaden her thinking. However, I'm not a fan of intense sun and 100+ degree days, so I'm not sure how hard I'd push for it despite the scoring.

I think the big lesson here is that a state with a lower tax structure can really impact your retirement lifestyle if the housing is also affordable. Nevada, Alaska, and Florida really jump out as being friendly. South Dakota and (surprisingly) Washington are also pretty good.

It bears repeating. 110 at 10% humidity is far more comfortable than 90 at 60%.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

It bears repeating. 110 at 10% humidity is far more comfortable than 90 at 60%.

Yeah, but I think I'd take my current 90 degrees at 20 percent humidity over either of them.

If I was going to relocate in retirement I'd want an improvement in climate, which in my case is cooler summers. My wife wants warmer winters, so those two things in combination really knock out a lot of contenders.

[Rukdafaidas]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Yeah, but I think I'd take my current 90 degrees at 20 percent humidity over either of them.

If I was going to relocate in retirement I'd want an improvement in climate, which in my case is cooler summers. My wife wants warmer winters, so those two things in combination really knock out a lot of contenders.

Did you factor crime rates in your research?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

It bears repeating. 110 at 10% humidity is far more comfortable than 90 at 60%.

The other day in KC it was 91 degrees with a heat index of 107. Here, it was 96 with a head index of 91.

High humidity can make even 70-75 uncomfortable (now that I've gotten used to 10-20%).... the lack of humidity opens that up to where I'll drive home with the windows down at 90 or even a little hotter, or sit outside on the porch in the shade.

IMO though, anything over about 107 is getting extreme if you're not in a pool, regardless of the humidity. Granted, still preferred over a hot and humid day in KC.

[Perineum Ripper]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Recognizing that my scoring scheme is not going to be perfect, I would look at the cities and identify the following as being particularly interesting:

Albuquerque/Rio Rancho (NM)
Sedona (AZ)
Port Angeles (WA)
Ketchikan (AK)
Tampa (FL)

There are others that are very interesting such Las Vegas (NV), Bullhead City (AZ), Silver City (NM), Cocoa Beach (FL), Eugene (OR), etc., but they often have one glaring weakness that I think is understated in the scoring that might be a fatal flaw.

I’m a big fan of the Rio Rancho area, cheap living and weather that’s bearable year round.

[Rukdafaidas]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

IMO though, anything over about 107 is getting extreme if you're not in a pool, regardless of the humidity. Granted, still preferred over a hot and humid day in KC.

I'm from the midwest and was talking with a guy on a golf course in Vegas about the low humidity. He made a good point. He said "it may be dry heat, but so is your oven and it will cook a turkey".

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Rukdafaidas

Did you factor crime rates in your research?

There are two things that I pondered putting into the model and didn't. Maybe I'll build them in at some point.

Crime rates - It obviously seems like an important thing, but I'm not sure how relevant it is given the geography of how they're reported. For example, I live in an area that statistically has a relatively high crime rate. But my neighborhood is mostly home owners and is very low crime. The numbers get driven up because there's a commercial street that happens to be in my zip code where there's a lot of low-income housing and criminal-on-criminal crime. Likewise, I think the city of Denver shows up above-average in crime relative to other Colorado cities, but it's mostly because of criminal-on-criminal crime that's happening in a few specific neighborhoods that I never visit.

So while it seems counterintuitive, I don't know if I really care about crime rates that much. Since I'm not a criminal and I'll likely live in a decent neighborhood, I don't think crime impacts me measurably. (I do keep a lookout for the bike that was stolen from my garage 15 years ago, though. I'll find it someday.)

That said, I saw something during my search about how Albuquerque has a high crime rate for things like theft. It gives me pause. But then again I know people who lived there for a decade or more and never had any issues, so I think even petty crime is concentrated in areas where I wouldn't necessarily live. Thoughts?

Growth rates/home appreciation - This is something I'm strongly considering adding. In some places housing is more affordable because the community is in decline or because there's no appreciation in housing values. In the big picture, I'd prefer to live in a place that's growing and has house price appreciation, because home equity will be my last line of financial defense when I'm 95 years old and running out of cash. It's been great to be in Denver for the past 25 years where I've gotten this, and if I retire at 65 and move there'll be another 25 years of home appreciation to consider. I think it would be a long-term financial mistake to move to a place where I don't get that.

That also brings up other things like water - does Las Vegas or Phoenix or southern California have enough water to handle growth and sustainability? If not, that could cause a major reversal of fortunes in the future. So my thinking is that I'll narrow the list down and then do a long-term risk/reward assessment of the finalists that takes into account location-unique issues.

[Shiver Me Timbers]

Rainman-
Have you checked out Payson AZ?
Never gets unbearably hot or cold (mid 20's) and about 80 miles from Phoenix metro
Have not read the whole thread but based upon some of your criteria it might be a good match.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Shiver Me Timbers

Rainman-
Have you checked out Payson AZ?
Never gets unbearably hot or cold (mid 20's) and about 80 miles from Phoenix metro
Have not read the whole thread but based upon some of your criteria it might be a good match.

I'll add it to the mix. I'm not familiar with it.

[Rain Man]

I added in all of the new ones, as well as a few others. Here are the rankings and the scores to date. (In a spoiler since it's a long list.) Recall that my scoring system gave a zero to the lowest-scoring city and a 100 to the highest scoring city, and then apportioned the others in between.

Among the new cities I added, Phoenix bumped into the top five and Scottsdale made it into the top ten.

Spoiler!

Rank Score City
Rank Score City State
1 100.00 Las Vegas NV
2 98.76 Albuquerque NM
3 98.29 Silver City NM
4 97.94 Rio Rancho NM
5 97.35 Phoenix AZ
6 95.59 Portugal PRT
7 95.34 Tucson AZ
8 94.76 Scottsdale AZ
9 92.75 Tampa FL
10 91.77 Reno NV
11 90.10 Sedona AZ
12 89.74 Palm Bay FL
13 89.36 Bullhead City AZ
14 89.14 Santa Fe NM
15 87.99 Bisbee AZ
16 87.50 St. George UT
17 87.46 Anthem AZ
18 87.02 Las Vegas NM
19 86.79 Boulder City NV
20 86.57 Laughlin NV
21 86.46 Payson AZ
22 86.13 Stay at home CO
23 85.44 Cheyenne WY
24 85.18 Fort Collins CO
25 84.82 Flagstaff AZ
26 83.91 Greeley CO
27 83.85 Marfa TX
28 83.84 Honolulu HI
29 83.75 Bay St. Louis MS
30 82.64 Denver CO
31 82.27 Pueblo CO
32 82.03 Fort Lauderdale FL
33 81.99 Delray Beach FL
34 81.92 Amarillo TX
35 81.78 Lake Havasu City AZ
36 81.52 Taos NM
37 81.28 Trinidad CO
38 81.19 Oxnard CA
39 81.17 Savannah GA
40 80.61 Prescott AZ
41 80.45 Salida CO
42 79.92 Port Angeles WA
43 79.69 Hot Springs AR
44 79.53 Eugene OR
45 79.45 Tulsa OK
46 78.58 Orange CA
47 77.97 Cocoa Beach FL
48 77.59 Siem Reap Cambodia
49 77.27 Farmington NM
50 77.09 Miami FL
51 75.36 Gulf Shores AL
52 75.33 Limon CO
53 75.24 Ventura CA
54 75.11 Fallbrook CA
55 74.88 St. Augustine FL
56 74.65 Hilton Head SC
57 74.36 Roatan Hon
58 73.62 Palm Springs CA
59 73.27 Incline Village NV
60 72.87 Davis CA
61 72.76 Overland Park KS
62 72.49 Fredericksburg TX
63 71.85 Omaha NE
64 71.34 Placerville CA
65 71.11 Palisade CO
66 71.10 Gunnison CO
67 70.76 Kansas City MO
68 70.71 Billings MT
69 70.53 Ketchikan AK
70 69.43 Laguna Niguel CA
71 68.89 Spearfish SD
72 67.83 Cambria CA
73 67.67 Boise ID
74 67.09 Grand Junction CO
75 66.74 Camdenton MO
76 66.69 Lawrence KS
77 66.57 Galveston TX
78 65.68 Eureka CA
79 64.87 Manhattan KS
80 64.08 Fort Morgan CO
81 63.95 Redding CA
82 63.51 Warsaw MO
83 63.08 Durango CO
84 61.30 Hilo HI
85 59.67 Key West FL
86 59.36 Jackson WY
87 59.15 Vancouver BC CA
88 56.28 Juneau AK
89 55.52 Deadwood SD
90 54.33 Rochester MN
91 53.84 Sitka AK
92 48.76 Frisco CO
93 31.29 Skagway AK
94 22.56 Paris France
95 8.97 Laguna Beach CA
96 0.00 New York NY

[lewdog]

Good stuff Rainman.

How serious are you about moving?

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by lewdog

Good stuff Rainman.

How serious are you about moving?

Pretty much zero for the next few years unless my wife gets mad at the snow again. We still need to work for a while and Denver's the best place for that. But I'm kind of intrigued (as is my wife) by picking the top five prospects and living in each one for a month over the next five years to scout them out. Maybe it's the pandemic talking, but I think we're both interested in some new scenery.

In the long term (post-retirement), I think there's a 50/50 chance just for the climate.

[Rain Man]

I think the only ones I could really justify would be the top 21 (the ones above the 'stay at home' option. Among those, I see several that my wife will veto on sight regardless of the scoring. I bet the only ones she would consider would be Albuquerque/Rio Rancho, Sedona, and Santa Fe. Maybe St. George, too. I'd strongly consider Las Vegas with those.

And of course the scoring isn't the final cut. I'd strongly consider Port Angeles, and I'm kind of intrigued by Oxnard now that bearcat mentioned it. It seems to have a perfect climate, and it's at least slightly more affordable than other parts of SoCal. I'm fascinated by Ketchikan, but I just can't grasp how much rain 141 inches is.