WTF, Amazon?!?!

[htismaqe]

So I logged into my Amazon account this evening to order some razor blades and noticed that in my product browsing history is the Ravens/Cowboys game.

Why is that odd?

Because I didn't watch it on Amazon Prime. I didn't watch it via any streaming service. I didn't watch it on a smart TV, I didn't even watch it on a connected device.

I watched it OTA on a regular TV. I know those stupid smart home devices can hear you when you say their name and I'm sure they listen to my conversations on occasion but are they listening to what I'm ****ing watching on TV?

[MIAdragon]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So I logged into my Amazon account this evening to order some razor blades and noticed that in my product browsing history is the Ravens/Cowboys game.

Why is that odd?

Because I didn't watch it on Amazon Prime. I didn't watch it via any streaming service. I didn't watch it on a smart TV, I didn't even watch it on a connected device.

I watched it OTA on a regular TV. I know those stupid smart home devices can hear you when you say their name and I'm sure they listen to my conversations on occasion but are they listening to what I'm ****ing watching on TV?

Yes

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by cdcox

It’s quite likely that they could predict that you would either watch or be interested in that game base on data analytics without having any direct confirmation that you watched it. It turns out that with enough data humans are very predictable.

Again, it wasn't a recommendation, it was in my browsing history.

They weren't suggesting I watch it, they were saying I HAD WATCHED or previewed at least part of the broadcast.

[displacedinMN]

Everything is listening.

A few weeks ago, some kid told me she was getting ads for Mt. Dew on her devices, because I talked about Mt. Dew in class

So we did a test.

I had all of them open their computers/turn on their phones/turn up the volume.

Then I went on a speech about buying a sawhorse. (random object)

It took about 12 hours for ads for home improvement stores to start showing up on students ads and devices.

THEY ARE LISTENING!!!!! THEY ARE ALL CONNECTED!!!!!

[Deberg_1990]

I’m going to start living my life ‘off the grid’

Goodbye Chiefsplanet.....

[ptlyon]

Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC

I had one of those devices in my house and ended up unplugging it and putting it in the closet. The more I read about them the more I wanted it away from me

Have you checked on it lately?

[displacedinMN]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

I’m going to start living my life ‘off the grid’

Goodbye Chiefsplanet.....

Then you have to shut off all devices around you and get a land line

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by displacedinMN

Then you have to shut off all devices around you and get a land line

And even with a landline, they can get you with phishing and social engineering attacks.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by displacedinMN

Then you have to shut off all devices around you and get a land line

Honestly, it would be extremely hard in today’s world to live off the grid completely.

You would basically have to become a Ted Kaczynski. Move to the mountains, live off the land and cut off all contact with other humans.

[stanleychief]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Much more likely my MIL accidentally clicked on it when she was looking for Christmas movies.

I'd suspect this. I'm wrapping up work on an Alexa skill, and a Google Assistant skill right now. These devices are not allowed to send data back for analysis until the 'wake' word has been issued. In fact, as a skill developer, you can have your skill rejected from being approved if the microphone is left open too long, or when not necessary.

From Amazon:

Alexa and all of our Echo devices are designed with your privacy in mind. When you want to talk to Alexa, you have to first alert your device by saying the wake word, which by default is “Alexa” or by pressing the action button on the device. Only then does your device begin recording and sending your request to Amazon's secure cloud.

In addition, Alexa Guard allows you to configure the device to listen for the sound of glass breakage, or smoke alarms. This enables additional monitoring, but only when triggered from alarms or glass breakage. From Amazon:

Guard will only detect these sounds when set to Away mode. Similar to the wake word, the device detects these sounds by identifying acoustic patterns that match the sounds you select. Guard does not store or send audio to the cloud unless the device detects a selected sound.

In addition, you have the option of reviewing your privacy history, and deleting it if you so choose from Amazon's website here: https://www.amazon.com/hz/mycd/myx/#...xaPrivacy/home

From Google:

The Google Assistant is designed to wait in standby mode until it is activated, like when you say “Hey Google.” The Assistant starts in standby mode, waiting to be activated. In standby mode, it processes short snippets of audio (a few seconds) to detect an activation (such as “Ok Google”). If no activation is detected, then those audio snippets won’t be sent or saved to Google. When an activation is detected, the Assistant comes out of standby mode to fulfill your request.

Similar to Amazon, Google allows you to manage your data using their website here: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6030020

Apple, on the other hand isn't a clear about when the data is sent, but is very clear about the usage of such data. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210657

In summary, there is a lot of paranoia about smart devices eavesdropping on your conversations. From my own experiences with these devices, as both a developer and a user, this just isn't true. I've run Wireshark several times to monitor and intercept packets for debugging. Voice data is only sent after the device has been awoken using that device's wake word.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC

I had one of those devices in my house and ended up unplugging it and putting it in the closet. The more I read about them the more I wanted it away from me

Did you get rid of your phone too? This is the world we live in now, it's either this or be a hermit.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by stanleychief

I'd suspect this. I'm wrapping up work on an Alexa skill, and a Google Assistant skill right now. These devices are not allowed to send data back for analysis until the 'wake' word has been issued. In fact, as a skill developer, you can have your skill rejected from being approved if the microphone is left open too long, or when not necessary.

From Amazon:

In addition, Alexa Guard allows you to configure the device to listen for the sound of glass breakage, or smoke alarms. This enables additional monitoring, but only when triggered from alarms or glass breakage. From Amazon:

In addition, you have the option of reviewing your privacy history, and deleting it if you so choose from Amazon's website here: https://www.amazon.com/hz/mycd/myx/#...xaPrivacy/home

From Google:

Similar to Amazon, Google allows you to manage your data using their website here: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6030020

Apple, on the other hand isn't a clear about when the data is sent, but is very clear about the usage of such data. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210657

In summary, there is a lot of paranoia about smart devices eavesdropping on your conversations. From my own experiences with these devices, as both a developer and a user, this just isn't true. I've run Wireshark several times to monitor and intercept packets for debugging. Voice data is only sent after the device has been awoken using that device's wake word.

You really don't even have to use Wireshark if you have a firewall or something sitting in the data stream. You can see the voice transmissions as clusters of UDP packets coming in. Most of the other data is TCP.

[tatorhog]

Have you ever done a packet capture on an echo or dot? We did a couple years ago, and those things are transmitting data nonstop (and not just to amazon owned IPs), even when you think they are "idle".

Its like a marketing person's wet dream to have that in your home.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see this has already been discussed.

[stanleychief]

Originally Posted by tatorhog

Have you ever done a packet capture on an echo or dot? We did a couple years ago, and those things are transmitting data nonstop (and not just to amazon owned IPs), even when you think they are "idle".

Its like a marketing person's wet dream to have that in your home.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see this has already been discussed.

You will see a lot of traffic, especially if you have a device with a display. The Echo Show will pull advertising 'slides' from Amazon, and they all send pings to Amazon, for updates and other purposes occasionally.

[tatorhog]

Originally Posted by stanleychief

You will see a lot of traffic, especially if you have a device with a display. The Echo Show will pull advertising 'slides' from Amazon, and they all send pings to Amazon, for updates and other purposes occasionally.

This wasn't simple heartbeat stuff, it was streams of outbound traffic.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by stanleychief

You will see a lot of traffic, especially if you have a device with a display. The Echo Show will pull advertising 'slides' from Amazon, and they all send pings to Amazon, for updates and other purposes occasionally.

Correct. The Echo Show is constantly pulling data. It doesn't push a lot of data though unless you're using it. It's also a traditional "web" host so it has traffic patterns similar to a web browser in there, too.