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Old 12-08-2020, 11:08 PM  
htismaqe htismaqe is online now
'Tis my eye!
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chiefsplanet
WTF, Amazon?!?!

So I logged into my Amazon account this evening to order some razor blades and noticed that in my product browsing history is the Ravens/Cowboys game.

Why is that odd?

Because I didn't watch it on Amazon Prime. I didn't watch it via any streaming service. I didn't watch it on a smart TV, I didn't even watch it on a connected device.

I watched it OTA on a regular TV. I know those stupid smart home devices can hear you when you say their name and I'm sure they listen to my conversations on occasion but are they listening to what I'm ****ing watching on TV?
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Old 12-09-2020, 07:50 AM   #31
MIAdragon MIAdragon is offline
Someone pass the antifreeze
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Miami (North Cuba)
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
So I logged into my Amazon account this evening to order some razor blades and noticed that in my product browsing history is the Ravens/Cowboys game.

Why is that odd?

Because I didn't watch it on Amazon Prime. I didn't watch it via any streaming service. I didn't watch it on a smart TV, I didn't even watch it on a connected device.

I watched it OTA on a regular TV. I know those stupid smart home devices can hear you when you say their name and I'm sure they listen to my conversations on occasion but are they listening to what I'm ****ing watching on TV?
Yes
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Old 12-09-2020, 07:52 AM   #32
htismaqe htismaqe is online now
'Tis my eye!
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
It’s quite likely that they could predict that you would either watch or be interested in that game base on data analytics without having any direct confirmation that you watched it. It turns out that with enough data humans are very predictable.
Again, it wasn't a recommendation, it was in my browsing history.

They weren't suggesting I watch it, they were saying I HAD WATCHED or previewed at least part of the broadcast.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:06 AM   #33
displacedinMN displacedinMN is offline
It was not a fair catch
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Correcting papers
Everything is listening.

A few weeks ago, some kid told me she was getting ads for Mt. Dew on her devices, because I talked about Mt. Dew in class

So we did a test.

I had all of them open their computers/turn on their phones/turn up the volume.

Then I went on a speech about buying a sawhorse. (random object)

It took about 12 hours for ads for home improvement stores to start showing up on students ads and devices.

THEY ARE LISTENING!!!!! THEY ARE ALL CONNECTED!!!!!
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:09 AM   #34
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Location: San Antonio Tx.
I’m going to start living my life ‘off the grid’

Goodbye Chiefsplanet.....
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:14 AM   #35
ptlyon ptlyon is offline
Bono & Grbac wasn't enough
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC View Post
I had one of those devices in my house and ended up unplugging it and putting it in the closet. The more I read about them the more I wanted it away from me
Have you checked on it lately?
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:15 AM   #36
displacedinMN displacedinMN is offline
It was not a fair catch
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 View Post
I’m going to start living my life ‘off the grid’

Goodbye Chiefsplanet.....
Then you have to shut off all devices around you and get a land line
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:16 AM   #37
htismaqe htismaqe is online now
'Tis my eye!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by displacedinMN View Post
Then you have to shut off all devices around you and get a land line
And even with a landline, they can get you with phishing and social engineering attacks.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:19 AM   #38
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by displacedinMN View Post
Then you have to shut off all devices around you and get a land line
Honestly, it would be extremely hard in today’s world to live off the grid completely.

You would basically have to become a Ted Kaczynski. Move to the mountains, live off the land and cut off all contact with other humans.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:36 AM   #39
stanleychief stanleychief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Much more likely my MIL accidentally clicked on it when she was looking for Christmas movies.
I'd suspect this. I'm wrapping up work on an Alexa skill, and a Google Assistant skill right now. These devices are not allowed to send data back for analysis until the 'wake' word has been issued. In fact, as a skill developer, you can have your skill rejected from being approved if the microphone is left open too long, or when not necessary.

From Amazon:
Quote:
Alexa and all of our Echo devices are designed with your privacy in mind. When you want to talk to Alexa, you have to first alert your device by saying the wake word, which by default is “Alexa” or by pressing the action button on the device. Only then does your device begin recording and sending your request to Amazon's secure cloud.
In addition, Alexa Guard allows you to configure the device to listen for the sound of glass breakage, or smoke alarms. This enables additional monitoring, but only when triggered from alarms or glass breakage. From Amazon:
Quote:
Guard will only detect these sounds when set to Away mode. Similar to the wake word, the device detects these sounds by identifying acoustic patterns that match the sounds you select. Guard does not store or send audio to the cloud unless the device detects a selected sound.
In addition, you have the option of reviewing your privacy history, and deleting it if you so choose from Amazon's website here: https://www.amazon.com/hz/mycd/myx/#...xaPrivacy/home

From Google:
Quote:
The Google Assistant is designed to wait in standby mode until it is activated, like when you say “Hey Google.” The Assistant starts in standby mode, waiting to be activated. In standby mode, it processes short snippets of audio (a few seconds) to detect an activation (such as “Ok Google”). If no activation is detected, then those audio snippets won’t be sent or saved to Google. When an activation is detected, the Assistant comes out of standby mode to fulfill your request.
Similar to Amazon, Google allows you to manage your data using their website here: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6030020

Apple, on the other hand isn't a clear about when the data is sent, but is very clear about the usage of such data. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210657

In summary, there is a lot of paranoia about smart devices eavesdropping on your conversations. From my own experiences with these devices, as both a developer and a user, this just isn't true. I've run Wireshark several times to monitor and intercept packets for debugging. Voice data is only sent after the device has been awoken using that device's wake word.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:40 AM   #40
Mecca Mecca is offline
Hockey Town
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC View Post
I had one of those devices in my house and ended up unplugging it and putting it in the closet. The more I read about them the more I wanted it away from me
Did you get rid of your phone too? This is the world we live in now, it's either this or be a hermit.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:41 AM   #41
htismaqe htismaqe is online now
'Tis my eye!
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chiefsplanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanleychief View Post
I'd suspect this. I'm wrapping up work on an Alexa skill, and a Google Assistant skill right now. These devices are not allowed to send data back for analysis until the 'wake' word has been issued. In fact, as a skill developer, you can have your skill rejected from being approved if the microphone is left open too long, or when not necessary.

From Amazon:

In addition, Alexa Guard allows you to configure the device to listen for the sound of glass breakage, or smoke alarms. This enables additional monitoring, but only when triggered from alarms or glass breakage. From Amazon:

In addition, you have the option of reviewing your privacy history, and deleting it if you so choose from Amazon's website here: https://www.amazon.com/hz/mycd/myx/#...xaPrivacy/home

From Google:

Similar to Amazon, Google allows you to manage your data using their website here: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6030020

Apple, on the other hand isn't a clear about when the data is sent, but is very clear about the usage of such data. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210657

In summary, there is a lot of paranoia about smart devices eavesdropping on your conversations. From my own experiences with these devices, as both a developer and a user, this just isn't true. I've run Wireshark several times to monitor and intercept packets for debugging. Voice data is only sent after the device has been awoken using that device's wake word.
You really don't even have to use Wireshark if you have a firewall or something sitting in the data stream. You can see the voice transmissions as clusters of UDP packets coming in. Most of the other data is TCP.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:42 AM   #42
tatorhog tatorhog is offline
When pigs fly
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kansas
Have you ever done a packet capture on an echo or dot? We did a couple years ago, and those things are transmitting data nonstop (and not just to amazon owned IPs), even when you think they are "idle".

Its like a marketing person's wet dream to have that in your home.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see this has already been discussed.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:54 AM   #43
stanleychief stanleychief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatorhog View Post
Have you ever done a packet capture on an echo or dot? We did a couple years ago, and those things are transmitting data nonstop (and not just to amazon owned IPs), even when you think they are "idle".

Its like a marketing person's wet dream to have that in your home.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see this has already been discussed.
You will see a lot of traffic, especially if you have a device with a display. The Echo Show will pull advertising 'slides' from Amazon, and they all send pings to Amazon, for updates and other purposes occasionally.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:56 AM   #44
tatorhog tatorhog is offline
When pigs fly
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanleychief View Post
You will see a lot of traffic, especially if you have a device with a display. The Echo Show will pull advertising 'slides' from Amazon, and they all send pings to Amazon, for updates and other purposes occasionally.
This wasn't simple heartbeat stuff, it was streams of outbound traffic.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:57 AM   #45
htismaqe htismaqe is online now
'Tis my eye!
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chiefsplanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanleychief View Post
You will see a lot of traffic, especially if you have a device with a display. The Echo Show will pull advertising 'slides' from Amazon, and they all send pings to Amazon, for updates and other purposes occasionally.
Correct. The Echo Show is constantly pulling data. It doesn't push a lot of data though unless you're using it. It's also a traditional "web" host so it has traffic patterns similar to a web browser in there, too.
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