WTF is with the defense?

[petegz28]

That's 2 games in a row they really didn't do a ****ing thing. Carr had all ****ing night to throw. Guys are dropping shoulders and not wrapping up. YAC is killing us. Receivers are running wide open.

I will give them some credit in that I thought they stopped the run fairly well against the Raiders.

No pass rush
No tackling
No attitude

WTF?

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Frank Clark Chris Jones and Hitchens are well worth the money we paid them they helped win us a Super Bowl and they can help win us more Super Bowls.





Teams are really gunning for the Chiefs that's just the way it is when you are the Champions.

You know you my boy but Hitchens? Come on man. Hitchens is an average LB at best. No way is he worth that contract

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

Middle of the pack in yard and top ten in points allowed...That means they are gonna have a few bad games during season.

That's true. Sadly though, the Raiders are the ones built in a way that makes it difficult for us.

Raiders don't need to blitz, their Dline can handle the run and still get some pressure. The Oline can handle things without a bunch of help too.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by JakeF

We are spending 1 million less on defense than we do on offense. Think about that for a second.

How can our defense suck so badly when we are spending 98m on that side of the ball?

You know you're being disingenuous.

Mahomes' contract hasn't balooned yet. We're paying him at the moment like a low to mid level starting QB.

[RunKC]

We are last in the league in red zone defense. That’s the big thing that has to change.

Hold teams to more FG’s and it’s over

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You guys realize that defenses have struggled mightily against good offenses right? Compared to the rest of the league , the Chiefs defense has fared very well. You guys need to calibrate. The Steelers have faced absolute dog shit all year for offenses and against similar opponents, the Chiefs give up the same 17 PPG

[Megatron96]

I think we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that this defense is the 2000 Ravens defense. Or the 85 Bears or whatever. We literally have three All-Pro level players and a bunch of role players, rookies/2nd-year guys, and JAGs.

Spags basically made chicken salad out of chickenshit last season, and for most of this season, outside of three games. We still don't have a top-tier LB, or a shut-down CB, and yet our defense is somehow a top half defense and the secondary has been a top 10 unit. In spite of those obvious short-comings.

So what has Spags been doing all this time? He's been trying to take away the biggest weapons our opponents have. Sunday night it was the Raiders running game and big plays by Ruggs and Agholar. And he did. They had one big play and rushed for less than 80 yards. Mission accomplished. But he couldn't do much about Waller (though realistically, who can?).

And our pass-rush is essentially two players-Jones and Clark. We don't have another solid pass-rusher on the team, which is a big part of the reason Spags has been utilizing all those exotic blitz packages, bringing the likes of Niemann, Sorenson, Mathieu, etc. It has worked against most of the teams we've faced, but against the best OLs that have good to great QBs/receivers, it's come up short lately.

But we have to be honest about the state of things midway through the 2020 season: Okafor has been injured, and even now hasn't been playing well to this point. That could change in the coming weeks, which will make things easier for Clark and Jones, but until then opposing OCs will just double-team/chip/scheme our best pass-rushers out of the play.

But after Okafor, the well is basically dry in terms of pass-rushers. Last season we had Okafor, Ogbah, and eventually Suggs. Those guys created just enough chaos on their side to give Jones and Clark a little more freedom to work. This season that hasn't been available.

I'm not saying the defense is bad, because I think the defense has been pretty damned good all things considered. But comparing the defense to the offense, which is stacked with talent and speed plus the greatest QB of all-time, isn't really a fair comparison.

I mean just look at the difference:

On offense:

Mahomes: greatest QB ever

CEH: budding future All-Pro rookie RB
Bell: former All-Pro RB

Hill: All-Pro WR, most dangerous WR in the NFL
Watkins: Former 1st round pick, top-tier WR
Hardman: 4.3 speed.
Robinson: probably a WR2/3 for 20 teams

Kelce: best TE since TG

Fisher: 1st round pick, top 5 LT
Schwartz: best RT last season

On defense:

Clark: 11 PDs, 11 FFs, 47 sacks just in the regular season. In the playoffs, 8 sacks, 1 PD, 1 FF.

Chris Jones: 21 PD, 9 FF, 38.5 sacks.

Mathieu: 19 INTs, 2 TDs, 65 PDs, 4 FFs, 9 sacks.

Hitchens/Wilson/Pennel/Sorenson/Niemann are role players at best.

Everyone else on the defense just isn't on their level. We've got a couple possible 'diamonds in the rough,' in guys like Nnadi, Gay, Snead, Thornhill, and maybe one of two other guys, but the only guys that anyone would consider top 10-15 across the league are Clark, Jones, and Mathieu.

And they can't hide all the holes in this defense. All those other guys have to play big every week or they're just going to have problems. I mean, seriously why do you think Spags has had both Clark and Jones dropping back into coverage, putting Jones at DE, bringing Clark into the middle, having Mathieu literally play everything from slot, S, to LB for crying out loud. I'm not saying the guys don't like it, but they're putting in a ton of work moving around as much as they do, to try and keep offenses from drawing a bead on the defense's weaknesses.

But somehow they've been consistently good or better through the last 20 games. I mean seriously, think about what they've been able to do without 1st rounders/All-Pros at LB/CB and atleast one other pass-rusher: even including the two Raiders games and the game against CAR, they're only giving up about 21 points/game. They've been able to hold up against every playoff team from last season. And a couple top 5 offenses this year. And what they did against BAL?
That was something. That was the pinnacle of what this unit can be.

And maybe in a year or two Thornhill becomes a top-15 S. Maybe Snead becomes a solid CB2. Maybe Gay delivers on his promise in a couple seasons. And I believe at least two of those things will happen. Maybe all three.

But right now, those guys are first or second year guys that are still just trying to find their identities on the team.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by JakeF

We are spending 1 million less on defense than we do on offense. Think about that for a second.

How can our defense suck so badly when we are spending 98m on that side of the ball?

Ask a Ravens fan, or a Titans fan, after their defense gets destroyed.

The NFL is an offensive league. The season is on pace to shatter multiple offensive records, including the highest 3rd down conversion rate ever.

You have to stop thinking about shut down defenses. They don't exist.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Yea Frank Clark, the guy who just had one of the best postseasons for an edge rusher in NFL history, isn’t even a top 20 DE...

Good ****ing god you’re beyond ****ing stupid.

Super Bowl didn't happen. Time to bitch!

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Super Bowl didn't happen. Time to bitch!

Fans like JakeF and OKchiefs don’t even deserve this team.

[GloryDayz]

Have we figured it out?

[Chris Meck]

Well, after the benefit of a couple days thought...

In game 1 vs The Raiders, we tried to stop the run, blitzed, and dared them to throw deep. Clearly, Spags was going to make Carr beat us, and he did. I'm sure Spags was surprised, as were all of us and don't try to say otherwise. Also, we were not entirely successful at stopping the run, giving up 144 yards and 4.1 ypc.

In game 2, we tried to stop the run and decided to keep the big plays to a minimum and force Carr to dink and dunk his way down the field.

Pick your poison.

We were much better against the run, giving up 89 yards total and we won the game.

We got Snead back, Ward has the cast off, Gay's picking up some PT, we'll get Okafor back-we're getting healthier.

Pass rush needs to pick up. That's the big thing.

Gay needs to take more of Niemann's snaps. Thornhill needs to take more of Sorensen's.

Maybe Baker can help some down the stretch.

I'd like to see Saunders in there against the lesser running teams, I think he gives you a little pass rush ability that Pennel doesn't.

Okafor needs to get healthy, we really miss a rush threat on the other side. I'd have already called old man Suggs and asked him if he wanted to come get another ring. Suggs for 10 snaps a game could be a big difference.

Also, if your young but superior athletes are struggling with the complicated zone schemes, why not throw some more man in the mix?

These are just my very general thoughts.

We're 9-1 and I wouldn't bet against us to win it all again. I have some concerns but I'm not panicking.

[htismaqe]

FWIW, Booker had a 43-yard run in the first game. Outside of that run, they had 101 yards and only 3 ypc.

Jacobs average 3.3 ypc in the first game and 3.2 ypc in the 2nd game.

I think they have the run figured out. The problem is Carr just isn't the QB he used to be.

[smithandrew051]

All things considered, the defense has only had 3 real bad performances. I think it’s weighing on us a little more since 2 of the 3 were the last 2 games. Also, that’s 2 bad performances against the Raiders now.

And even in those 3 bad games, you can point to a handful of plays that changed how we view those games.

If the pass rush rebounds (and I think it will), the defense will be more than competent. The run defense hasn’t been the abomination that it was in 2018 (if you think it is, then you really need to rewatch a couple of those games). The secondary is finally mostly healthy. I think they’ll get better and better. It all really comes down to the pass rush.

With all of that said, we still have a chance in every game even when our defense is at its worst. When our offense plays really well, we win. Every time.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

FWIW, Booker had a 43-yard run in the first game. Outside of that run, they had 101 yards and only 3 ypc.

Jacobs average 3.3 ypc in the first game and 3.2 ypc in the 2nd game.

I think they have the run figured out. The problem is Carr just isn't the QB he used to be.

Carr is the closest QB right now to the position Trent Green had in 2003. He has the best OL in football, top 10 RB, top 10 TE and Agholor has actually been decent for them this year.

Carr has it very good right now. It’s hard for any average QB to look bad in those situations.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

All things considered, the defense has only had 3 real bad performances. I think it’s weighing on us a little more since 2 of the 3 were the last 2 games. Also, that’s 2 bad performances against the Raiders now.

And even in those 3 bad games, you can point to a handful of plays that changed how we view those games.

If the pass rush rebounds (and I think it will), the defense will be more than competent. The run defense hasn’t been the abomination that it was in 2018 (if you think it is, then you really need to rewatch a couple of those games). The secondary is finally mostly healthy. I think they’ll get better and better. It all really comes down to the pass rush.

With all of that said, we still have a chance in every game even when our defense is at its worst. When our offense plays really well, we win. Every time.

We've had a shit ton of injuries on both lines this year. The secondary hasn't fared much better. Plus the suspensions to start the year.