Chris Simms: Tyreek Hill #1 WR in the NFL

[ToxSocks]

at all the Packers fans crying because Davante Adams didn't make his top 10. Video marked at Tyreek Hill discussion.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Julio is the best WR in the league and tbh it’s not really that close. He puts up consistent number each and every years meanwhile being double teamed almost every play. Also he’s a hell of a tackler

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Tyreek Hill turned Alex Smith into the #1 rated passer in the league and made Alex all of a sudden discover his deep ball.

Nah dawg. Alex wasn’t that way until 2017. Patrick Mahomes was drafted.

I think that forced Alex to be aggressive. Well...until he reverted back to his timid self in the playoffs despite having Tyreek and Hunt the whole game.

[Simply Red]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Reek could break the NFL reception record if he didn't just take half of them for 30 yard gains instead of 15.

I expect 2,000 yards, especially with defenses running around half the year missing their assignments.

Mahomes/Reek street ball will reign supreme.

yes hun

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE!

Julio is the best WR in the league and tbh it’s not really that close. He puts up consistent number each and every years meanwhile being double teamed almost every play. Also he’s a hell of a tackler

I'm glad that you mentioned that since it's so important to being a great WR in an NFL.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Hopkins average is 1,228 yards, 7 TD’s (closer to 8 at 7.7) with 11 less catches than Julio.

Keep in mind Hopkins doesn’t get the luxury of playing with an NFL MVP QB his entire career or have a top 5 offensive coach for a few years.

The fact that Hopkins has virtually the same production with literal shit at QB most of his career speaks to his value. And when he finally did have a good QB the last 2.5 years he dominated, but had a horrible HC.

Staylor will push the narrative that I think Julio sucks but that isn’t true. He’s a good receiver, but I don’t put him at the very top and that gets posters in their feelings.

Huh?

Pro-rate Hopkins performance and he has averages 92/1251/8

compared to 101/1540/7 for Julio.

I mean, they're 'virtually the same' except that Jones averages more catches, more yards, more yards/catch, more catches/target and more yards/target. So, apart from being better than Hopkins at EVERYTHING...clearly they're virtually the same.

And by the way, Hopkins best season was with Brian Hoyer throwing him the football. He's not gotten any better since Watson came along. As I said above, I largely discount the 'great WRs get more production w/ great QBs' argument because I've seen it in action. I've seen Cassell force everything to Bowe or Tyler Thigpen jam everything he can in to Tony G.

Hopkins hasn't seen an uptick in production since he had a Pro Bowl quarterback show up. His 2015 season was a product of hilarious volume. His 2018 season was essentially his 2014 season + more targets (but the rates were the same). he's been the same player.

Which is a player that's about 85% as productive as Julio Jones.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Mecca

That's kinda weird he said that since I think Jones is far more athletically gifted than Hopkins is.

He is absolutely more physically gifted, but Hopkins is such a better route runner with generational hands and that means so much more to being a good receiver IMO.

Watching WR’s like Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison and Antonio Brown torch DB’s with beautiful route running is a thing of beauty. IMO to be a top WR you have to have that.

Everyone points to Megatron but he was a solid route runner for his size. I don’t see that with Julio.

Julio’s hands have been extremely liable to me which reminds me of Bowe. Highlight catches but make some really bad I’ll advised drops when you need him that other WR’s don’t do very often.

I’m surprised more people hate on me for not loving Julio but don’t give shit to staylor for shitting all over Jerry Jeudy simply bc he’s a Bronco now

[Mecca]

To be fair Antonio Brown is probably the best WR of the last 8 years, he just lost his mind.

[DJ's left nut]

Wanna close things up a bit and just compare more recent histories to dispense with pro-rating and weight Hopkins years with Watson a little more?

Let's get rid of Hopkins rookie year and the 2013 season where Julio had his significant injury. We'll just go from 2014 to now:

Hopkins -- 94 games played, 580 receptions for 7800 yards, 52 scores, 13.4 yards/catch, 83 y/g, 60.6% catch percentage, 8.2 yards/tgt.

Jones -- 92 games played, 623 receptions for 9400 yards, 37 scores, 14.1 yards/catch, 102 y/g, 64.2 catch%, 9.7 yard/tgt.

I mean c'mon - this isn't really a contest. More yards, more catches, better rates across the board. Hopkins has more receiving TDs in that time period but the studies on WR TDs are pretty loud at this point - those are largely a usage thing rather than a skill thing.

In terms of raw productivity, pro-rated productivity and rate stats, Julio bests Hopkins across the board. And there's been no discernable overall improvement in Hopkins production since he went from his array of mediocre cast-offs to Watson under center so the QB argument doesn't withstand scrutiny either.

Julio Jones is easily a better player than Hopkins and has been for the entirety of their time togethr in the league.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And by the way, Hopkins best season was with Brian Hoyer throwing him the football. .

Hopkins was amazing with a backup level QB and the following collections of receivers to throw to: Cecil Shorts, Jaelen Strong, Keith Humphrey and Nate Washington.

Thank you for making the Only argument for me that is needed in this discussion.

The defense rests its case

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by RunKC

He is absolutely more physically gifted, but Hopkins is such a better route runner with generational hands and that means so much more to being a good receiver IMO.

Watching WR’s like Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison and Antonio Brown torch DB’s with beautiful route running is a thing of beauty. IMO to be a top WR you have to have that.

Everyone points to Megatron but he was a solid route runner for his size. I don’t see that with Julio.

Julio’s hands have been extremely liable to me which reminds me of Bowe. Highlight catches but make some really bad I’ll advised drops when you need him that other WR’s don’t do very often.

I’m surprised more people hate on me for not loving Julio but don’t give shit to staylor for shitting all over Jerry Jeudy simply bc he’s a Bronco now

Clearly you are just in love with route running which is what you think Julio lacks so then he isn't as good as Hopkins.

Being a great WR is just that -- you are a great WR. Whether you are a great WR who relies on speed, hands, route running or physical ability shouldn't matter. However you can get open and make plays is all that matters and Julio can do it better any WR in the NFL.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Hopkins was amazing with a backup level QB and the following collections of receivers to throw to: Cecil Shorts, Jaelen Strong, Keith Humphrey and Nate Washington.

Thank you for making the Only argument for me that is needed in this discussion.

The defense rests its case

And Dwayne Bowe once caught 15 touchdowns and made a Pro Bowl w/ Tony Moeaki, Leonard Pope, Dexter McCluster and Terrance Copper as his running-mates while catching passes from Matt Cassell.

If that's the only argument you have, maybe make a better one. Because if theres a 'more athletic Dwayne Bowe' in this conversation, it AIN'T Julio Jones.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

He is absolutely more physically gifted, but Hopkins is such a better route runner with generational hands and that means so much more to being a good receiver IMO.

Watching WR’s like Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison and Antonio Brown torch DB’s with beautiful route running is a thing of beauty. IMO to be a top WR you have to have that.

Everyone points to Megatron but he was a solid route runner for his size. I don’t see that with Julio.

Julio’s hands have been extremely liable to me which reminds me of Bowe. Highlight catches but make some really bad I’ll advised drops when you need him that other WR’s don’t do very often.

I’m surprised more people hate on me for not loving Julio but don’t give shit to staylor for shitting all over Jerry Jeudy simply bc he’s a Bronco now

Well somewhere your algebra falls apart here.

Because if Hopkins is better than Julio at the 2 areas most critical to being a great WR, it would stand to reason that it would show up SOMEWHERE on his ledger.

And it don't.

1+1 is equally 4 here somehow.

So either Hopkins isn't a better route runner, he doesn't have better hands (which even I don't feel inclined to argue; Hopkins does have surer hands than Jones and anyone not named Larry) or those 2 traits aren't the traits that are most critical in a great WR.

Because every manner in which you can compare the two puts Julio on top, notwithstanding the fact that Hopkins has better hands than Jones.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And Dwayne Bowe once caught 15 touchdowns and made a Pro Bowl w/ Tony Moeaki, Leonard Pope, Dexter McCluster and Terrance Copper as his running-mates while catching passes from Matt Cassell.

If that's the only argument you have, maybe make a better one. Because if theres a 'more athletic Dwayne Bowe' in this conversation, it AIN'T Julio Jones.

Wait... I'm confused. RunKC just listed the lack of surrounding talent Hopkins had in one of his seasons, and you just listed a ****ing badass that Bowe played next to who got him 15 TDs... what point are you trying to make?

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And Dwayne Bowe once caught 15 touchdowns and made a Pro Bowl w/ Tony Moeaki, Leonard Pope, Dexter McCluster and Terrance Copper as his running-mates while catching passes from Matt Cassell.

If that's the only argument you have, maybe make a better one. Because if theres a 'more athletic Dwayne Bowe' in this conversation, it AIN'T Julio Jones.

This is why I don’t like putting only numbers up with little clarity to it.

Of course Julio has better numbers. He’s been with a very good NFL MVP his entire career. He was with an elite OC for a few years and has seemingly always had excellent weapons to take pressure away.

Tony G (even older was a threat), Devonta Freeman, Austin Hooper, Mohamed Sanu, Calvin Ridley.

Imagine what Hopkins would do in an offense like that. The mere fact that Hopkins was doing what he was doing in his situation is truly remarkable.

Circumstance means everything in this league. Switch Julio and put Hopkins in ATL his entire career he’s got way higher numbers

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

This is why I don’t like putting only numbers up with little clarity to it.

Of course Julio has better numbers. He’s been with a very good NFL MVP his entire career. He was with an elite OC for a few years and has seemingly always had excellent weapons to take pressure away.

Tony G (even older was a threat), Devonta Freeman, Austin Hooper, Mohamed Sanu, Calvin Ridley.

Imagine what Hopkins would do in an offense like that. The mere fact that Hopkins was doing what he was doing in his situation is truly remarkable.

Circumstance means everything in this league. Switch Julio and put Hopkins in ATL his entire career he’s got way higher numbers

Absolutely nothing different at all. Not one thing.

Because when he's had better weapons around him, he wasn't appreciably better than he was when he had WORSE weapons around him. In terms of raw productivity it's been almost entirely a wash.

When you're the alpha dog on a team, the system doesn't matter much. You're gonna get force-fed the football. In many ways a better QB and better system can act as a DETRIMENT to a premier WRs numbers because now the ball is spread out more. Your quarterback is making better reads and throwing to open guys instead of forcing it to you.

Your team is better but your numbers are worse. Happens a lot in this league. It would happen if he came to KC as well.

You keep presuming an uptick in productivity as the weapons around him improve - but that hasn't really happened. And it has certainly not happened at the levels that would be required for him to close the 300 yards/season gap that presently exists between him and Jones.