Frank Clark ****ing sucks

[RealSNR]

Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.

[staylor26]

There are levels to everything.

Being critical is fine.

But when it comes to late round picks versus UDFA’s that no fan has even come close to matching in terms of homework down maybe just maybe give them the benefit of the doubt before saying one guy is “night and day better” than the other?

And hold off on saying we should fire the GM of a more than competent organization beofre his second draft class even touches the field?

What y’all are saying is at no point is it ok to say maybe we should just trust the pros on this one because we lack the information to judge so quickly?

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

Lol, what a weak ass response. Where was he throwing a fit like a child that didnt get what he wanted for Christmas? Youre a ****ing clown

That wasn’t in reference to Fenton specifically moron. I’m talking about the “fire Veach!!” stuff. It’s how DJ acts every year when he doesn’t get what he wants on draft day. If you’re suggesting that DJ hasn’t acted like that before, you are 100% wrong.

[O.city]

Saying you don't like a certain move doesn't necessarily mean you want to blow things up and fire everyone though.

Atleast when I say it it doesn't, I only speak for o.city though.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

There are levels to everything.

Being critical is fine.

But when it comes to late round picks versus UDFA’s that no fan has even come close to matching in terms of homework down maybe just maybe give them the benefit of the doubt before saying one guy is “night and day better” than the other?

And hold off on saying we should fire the GM of a more than competent organization beofre his second draft class even touches the field?

What y’all are saying is at no point is it ok to say maybe we should just trust the pros on this one because we lack the information to judge so quickly?

The irony of you demanding we consider the relativity of any situation and then seizing on the line 'night and day better' when discussing a 6th round pick vs. a UDFA as evidence that I eviscerated Brett Veach for a 3rd day pick should really not be lost on you...

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

Saying you don't like a certain move doesn't necessarily mean you want to blow things up and fire everyone though.

Atleast when I say it it doesn't, I only speak for o.city though.

No he has actually called for the firing of Veach or at least it was implied during one of his rants.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

That wasn’t in reference to Fenton specifically moron. I’m talking about the “fire Veach!!” stuff. It’s how DJ acts every year when he doesn’t get what he wants on draft day. If you’re suggesting that DJ hasn’t acted like that before, you are 100% wrong.

It. Uh. WAS in reference to Fenton specifically after you first insisted that I bitched about the picks we made in 2019 and then weirdly picked a guy who I'm pretty sure I never said a single word about during the draft to support that argument.

Now you're just trying to save face. Poorly, at that.

Yeah, I get heated at times with the front office; sometimes right, sometimes wrong. Never argued otherwise. You, OTOH, call anyone that disagrees with you a ****ing ****ball ****tard. I mean hell, evidently I can't disagree with Andy Reid and NOBODY can disagree with staylor26.

So we all have our crosses to bear...

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The irony of you demanding we consider the relativity of any situation and then seizing on the line 'night and day better' when discussing a 6th round pick vs. a UDFA as evidence that I eviscerated Brett Veach for a 3rd day pick should really not be lost on you...

That’s not really what I was trying to do. I was just giving an example of you thinking Veach 100% got it wrong when he actually got it right. Fenton was a huge steal that you so easily dismissed early on because he wasn’t your guy.

I know you weren’t nearly as upset about the Fenton pick as you were the Clark trade and some of his other moves though.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

Saying you don't like a certain move doesn't necessarily mean you want to blow things up and fire everyone though.

Atleast when I say it it doesn't, I only speak for o.city though.

Veach was pretty much placed on the hot seat by a lot of posters here, including me for a time.

Things have changed this year and it looks like he actually can draft and find talent in value areas after all!

That’s good shit for us

TLDR; Veach ****ed up on compensation for Clark, did really well with value players to make up for it.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It. Uh. WAS in reference to Fenton specifically after you first insisted that I bitched about the picks we made in 2019 and then weirdly picked a guy who I'm pretty sure I never said a single word about during the draft to support that argument.

Now you're just trying to save face. Poorly, at that.

Yeah, I get heated at times with the front office; sometimes right, sometimes wrong. Never argued otherwise. You, OTOH, call anyone that disagrees with you a ****ing ****ball ****tard. I mean hell, evidently I can't disagree with Andy Reid and NOBODY can disagree with staylor26.

So we all have our crosses to bear...

I thought you hated the 2019 draft because of how upset you were about the offseason Veach had. I guess you didn’t, but you clearly didn’t think it was going to be as good as it was either. You were far from praising it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

No he has actually called for the firing of Veach or at least it was implied during one of his rants.

I believe both.

Brett Veach has had an EASY job his first 2 years after he inherited a team full of star skill position players in their prime and an extremely clean cap situation (even with all the hand-wringing over Dorsey's poor cap management).

And with that he's burned a TON of cap space on effectively nothing and even the big money deal that hasn't blown up in his face could've/should've been made the year prior when Mathieu was looking for ANYONE that would give him 4/$40 million after he was cut by the Cardinals.

I've definitely implied it - or at least suggested that there are conditions that would make it the right move. If this team ends up in cap hell within 2 seasons of Mahomes contract being in place because of all the money they torched on ill-conceived contracts for luxury items and vanity picks, then yes - Brett Veach should be fired. And it will be because of decisions in his rearview at that time.

We shall see. Those decisions have already been made and can't be un-made. They can be mitigated in a HUGE way if Watkins and/or Clark come up big in the playoffs. Or if Hitchens can show more growth and make his contract more palatable this season and next.

But if he continues to show that he has an eye for undervalued assets like Ogbah, Wilson and Ward, guys who can at least partially offset his busted big ticket items - well I suppose that makes him break even in the end.

But let's not act like Veach is the architect of this machine - what he's done these last 2 years has largely been to coast on a foundation put in place by his predecessor(s) in Dorsey and Ballard. We're getting more returns in on his ledger and they aren't what's driving this franchise forward. They need to be in short order.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

I thought you hated the 2019 draft because of how upset you were about the offseason Veach had. I guess you didn’t, but you clearly didn’t think it was going to be as good as it was either. You were far from praising it.

I absolutely praised the selections themselves. I specifically cited the Thornhill and Saunders picks as nice gets. My only disagreement on Thornhill leading into the draft was with the idea that he should be a 1st rounder for us - I liked the selection in the 2nd.

I think I was frustrated with the Hardman pick because the Titans took a guy I thought would be an excellent long-term Sam for us (one of the few I saw in the draft) in De'Andre Walker with our pick and that was simply rubbing salt in the wound. I was find standing pat and going with JJ, Campbell, McLaurin or Boykin and then using that pick on Walker. Walker's on the IR so point become moot (but McLaurin has looked like a stud).

I believe I said so specifically somewhere in the draft forum (or maybe the mock) because someone just flat out asked me. When adjusted for the picks we ACTUALLY HAD and independent of the wrong-headed decision to sacrifice that draft capital so we could give a contract to Frank Clark that he never deserved, I thought the draft was solid overall.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

That’s not really what I was trying to do. I was just giving an example of you thinking Veach 100% got it wrong when he actually got it right. Fenton was a huge steal that you so easily dismissed early on because he wasn’t your guy.

I know you weren’t nearly as upset about the Fenton pick as you were the Clark trade and some of his other moves though.

And my point is that, my ultimate preferences be damned, I don't believe anyone gets anything right OR wrong in the 6th round or later. I rarely even get too worked up in the 5th unless I have an eye on someone who I think is sliding for the wrong reasons.

It's blind, dumb luck by and large.

How is saying that Fields has looked like a better player to that point some kind of withering indictment of the decision Brett Veach made? Not the pick I'd have made, but it's a full court heave anyway so who gives a shit? There's no skill involved in hitting a full-court shot - either you were extremely lucky that day or you're everyone else.

It's the paradox of skill at work - at a certain point, when everyone in a zero sum scenario are at least nominally qualified, the skill cancels out and a disproportionate amount of the results are attributable to luck. By the 6th round, that's mostly what you're looking at because there's even LESS to differentiate these guys.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by staylor26

There are levels to everything.

Being critical is fine.

But when it comes to late round picks versus UDFA’s that no fan has even come close to matching in terms of homework down maybe just maybe give them the benefit of the doubt before saying one guy is “night and day better” than the other?

And hold off on saying we should fire the GM of a more than competent organization beofre his second draft class even touches the field?

What y’all are saying is at no point is it ok to say maybe we should just trust the pros on this one because we lack the information to judge so quickly?

Jury is still out on Veach but I haven't been impressed so far. I know that upsets you but I don't care. Any GM who trades a 1st and 2nd rd pick then gives a guy a $105 million contract when we already had a good pass rusher is not going to be looked on favorably unless he kills it in the draft. Again, have to wait and see how rest of the year goes to come to any objective conclusion on Veach but jury is still out.

Personally I hope Clark comes back and kills it a long with rest of Veachs picks because I want what is best for the Chiefs but I just don't see it w Clark. I think he is overrated, possibly injury prone and was simply in the perfect system for him in Seattle. We'll see what happens, hopefully I am wrong!

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Jury is still out on Veach but I haven't been impressed so far. I know that upsets you but I don't care. Any GM who trades a 1st and 2nd rd pick then gives a guy a $105 million contract when we already had a good pass rusher is not going to be looked on favorably unless he kills it in the draft. Again, have to wait and see how rest of the year goes to come to any objective conclusion on Veach but jury is still out.

Personally I hope Clark comes back and kills it a long with rest of Veachs picks because I want what is best for the Chiefs but I just don't see it w Clark. I think he is overrated, possibly injury prone and was simply in the perfect system for him in Seattle. We'll see what happens, hopefully I am wrong!

If only you’d ever held your boi Alex Smith to the standard you hold Veach and Clark. They’re both worlds better at their jobs than Smith ever was.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

If only you’d ever held your boi Alex Smith to the standard you hold Veach and Clark. They’re both worlds better at their jobs than Smith ever was.

If only you would learn how to move on and not obsess about a player who isnt on the team. Then you wouldnt bring up a QB who left the Chiefs years ago in a thread about an defensive end