Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Marlins also looking to dump Ziegler. Can you imagine handing Matheny Ryan Franklin 2.0?

Ryan Franklin was better than Ziegler.

I wouldn't take on Ziegler for the veterans minimum. He struggles to break 83 mph these days and couldn't get lefties out when he was good. Can you imagine Matheny trying to utilize a ROOGY that throws in the low 80s?

Hell, I won't even blame Matheny for ****ing that up; Ziegler just sucks. I'd rather have the spot on the 40 man than that guy.

[O.city]

Just buck up and pay the money for Stanton. It's ridiculous.

Spend all this money your making and you'll make more. Bring in Stanton, hell, pay for Manny next year.

Just don't not do it, tell me you were close then go spend in some 3rd tier guy and expect me to be excited

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Just buck up and pay the money for Stanton. It's ridiculous.

Spend all this money your making and you'll make more. Bring in Stanton, hell, pay for Manny next year.

Just don't not do it, tell me you were close then go spend in some 3rd tier guy and expect me to be excited

But wait a minute, that's The Cardinal Way.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Ryan Franklin was better than Ziegler.

I wouldn't take on Ziegler for the veterans minimum. He struggles to break 83 mph these days and couldn't get lefties out when he was good. Can you imagine Matheny trying to utilize a ROOGY that throws in the low 80s?

Hell, I won't even blame Matheny for ****ing that up; Ziegler just sucks. I'd rather have the spot on the 40 man than that guy.

Oh I agree, especially now. The dude's arm is hamburger, I just saw the speculation and thought of course this would be their solution. I don't get where guys still get the consideration for closer just because at one time they had some success. Once they start to show decline it isn't that often they recoup that something special it takes to close. I would be careful with Holland and Davis for that same reason and they still have relatively good stuff, just not sure it is closer stuff still. Set up sure, but they won't get set up money.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Oh I agree, especially now. The dude's arm is hamburger, I just saw the speculation and thought of course this would be their solution. I don't get where guys still get the consideration for closer just because at one time they had some success. Once they start to show decline it isn't that often they recoup that something special it takes to close. I would be careful with Holland and Davis for that same reason and they still have relatively good stuff, just not sure it is closer stuff still. Set up sure, but they won't get set up money.

Holland lost another MPH last year; can't blame altitude for that.

I want no part of either Holland or Davis. Those are going to be your two best examples of reliever volatility and long-term contracts for closers gone awry as soon as the ink is dry. I suspect both of them will end up missing a half season or more in the next 2 years and neither will bounce back due to their age and use.

Go get Bryan Shaw, Tommy Hunter and Juan Nicaso and you can probably have all 3 of them for somewhere near the costs of Holland or Davis. And at least one of those guys, very possibly all 3, will give you something similar to at least what Holland will (and probably what Davis will after he breaks down).

Honestly, of the 'established' closers, the only one I think might actually pitch to his contract is Addison Reed because he stumbled a bit in Boston and that may keep his price reasonable. His velcoity has held steady, he's remained healthy and he's younger than most relief options out there.

Anyway, the best option is to go hard after Mychel Givens from Baltimore. He can close for the next 4 years and you could probably get him for Wacha or maybe even Grichuk. They need to trade for their next closer, not buy one.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It will not take anywhere approaching Reyes and Kelly to get Stanton and his whole contract. It won't take Reyes OR Kelly. If a team offers to take on his whole deal, there may be one 50-100 ranked prospect in there.

Don't let Mozeliak buffalo you. It is a money question and little more. The first team to volunteer to take on that entire deal will get him.

Jon Morsei of MLB.com says the Cards have made an offer for Stanton

While details of the Cardinals' offer remained unknown as of Sunday night and the club has not confirmed an offer has been made, its existence revealed the seriousness of the team's pursuit for a power hitter. At a relatively early stage of the offseason, the Cardinals are trying to ascertain the practicality of trading for Stanton -- both in meeting the Marlins' price tag and convincing Stanton to waive his no-trade clause.


The Cardinals have one of the best combinations of prospect depth and financial might of any potential Stanton suitor. The Marlins are prioritizing young starting pitchers in their asking prices for Stanton, sources say, and the Cardinals possess power-armed right-handers Alex Reyes (No. 14 on MLBPipeline.com's Top 100 Prospects list; No. 1 on Cards' Top 30 list), Jack Flaherty (No. 47 in Top 100; No. 3 on Cards' Top 30), and Sandy Alcantara (No. 9 on Cards' Top 30).


The Cardinals also have the payroll capacity to add a superstar -- if not now then certainly next offseason, when Adam Wainwright's $19.5 million salary comes off the books and Bryce Harper, Manny Machado and Josh Donaldson are slated to be available via free agency.


While the fit is logical on paper, it's also entirely contingent on Stanton's wishes. He can reject any trade and is believed to prefer West Coast destinations, according to MLB Network Insider Jon Heyman. Left unknown is whether Stanton would remain with the rebuilding Marlins for another season or accept a trade to St. Louis, if those are the only options presented to him.


Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak and general manager Mike Girsch likely will use the next several days to determine the viability of their chances to acquire Stanton. If the negotiations stall, the Cardinals could move on to potential offensive upgrades on the free-agent market, including J.D. Martinez and Eric Hosmer.


http://m.mlb.com/news/article/262184...carlo-stanton/

[raybec 4]

BRC you are ever the optimist

[DJ's left nut]

You see the Giants offer?

For Stanton and Gordon they offered Joe Panik, Tyler Beede (who wouldn't be a top 20 prospect in our system, IMO) and Chris Shaw, who is actually a little intriguing but is comparable to Harrison Bader at best.

If the Cardinals have to give up Alex Reyes it is exclusively because of the unwillingness of a billionaire to commit to paying franchise player prices for a franchise player talent. The Cardinals could absolutely obliterate that offer. Grichuk, Alcantara and Bader bests that offer relatively easily; flip Diaz in if you need to include an IFer.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Grichuk blows, but yeah that's a better offer sadly. Doubt they would take either shit deal.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

Grichuk blows, but yeah that's a better offer sadly. Doubt they would take either shit deal.

Grichuk doesn't blow. At all.

People want to kill him for what he isn't and refuse to acknowledge what he is, Matheny and Mabry included.

Let him go out there and do his thing - you know what you'll get? An .770 OPS, 30 HR hitter with above average CF defense and plus baserunning. Dude's a born 6 hitter who we keep trying to make into a 2 hitter or a 4 hitter because he hits HRs. That's not what he does and that's not who he'll ever be. Sure, he'll strike out 180 times and have 2 week stretches where he can't find his ass from a hole in the ground. But again, he'll also have stretches where he can carry the team.

He's a 2-3 WAR player if you'd just stop ****ing with him all the time. That's a major league regular. He has a higher ceiling than Piscotty does and the same shit folks are presently worshipping DeJong for, Grichuk's shown the ability to do over the last 3 years.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You see the Giants offer?

For Stanton and Gordon they offered Joe Panik, Tyler Beede (who wouldn't be a top 20 prospect in our system, IMO) and Chris Shaw, who is actually a little intriguing but is comparable to Harrison Bader at best.

If the Cardinals have to give up Alex Reyes it is exclusively because of the unwillingness of a billionaire to commit to paying franchise player prices for a franchise player talent. The Cardinals could absolutely obliterate that offer. Grichuk, Alcantara and Bader bests that offer relatively easily; flip Diaz in if you need to include an IFer.

Please do. I don't want Stanton in San Francisco.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Please do. I don't want Stanton in San Francisco.

As a baseball fan I'd hate to see that monster have to deal with the marine layer in SF.

Can we just send him to Cincinnati for the good of us all? I don't want him hitting 120 mph lasers for singles off the Monster in Fenway and those rockets he hits opposite field will die in SF. St. Louis pretty much plays fair but what the hell is fun about 'fair'?

Send him to Cinci or Baltimore where he'd hit 4 bombs every homestand until that violent swing of his makes his back/knees/shoulders fully and finally explode.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Cardinals could absolutely obliterate that offer. Grichuk, Alcantara and Bader bests that offer relatively easily; flip Diaz in if you need to include an IFer.

I'd be okay with 3 years of Stanton for those players. Assuming we are still going to be on the hook for $100 million at least, if he gets old and slow within those 3 years still seems like a high price. The Cardinals do have the money to have dead money on the books. They HAVE to do something to make the team better and loosen the log jam of prospects.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Jon Morsei of MLB.com says the Cards have made an offer for Stanton

While details of the Cardinals' offer remained unknown as of Sunday night and the club has not confirmed an offer has been made, its existence revealed the seriousness of the team's pursuit for a power hitter. At a relatively early stage of the offseason, the Cardinals are trying to ascertain the practicality of trading for Stanton -- both in meeting the Marlins' price tag and convincing Stanton to waive his no-trade clause.


The Cardinals have one of the best combinations of prospect depth and financial might of any potential Stanton suitor. The Marlins are prioritizing young starting pitchers in their asking prices for Stanton, sources say, and the Cardinals possess power-armed right-handers Alex Reyes (No. 14 on MLBPipeline.com's Top 100 Prospects list; No. 1 on Cards' Top 30 list), Jack Flaherty (No. 47 in Top 100; No. 3 on Cards' Top 30), and Sandy Alcantara (No. 9 on Cards' Top 30).


The Cardinals also have the payroll capacity to add a superstar -- if not now then certainly next offseason, when Adam Wainwright's $19.5 million salary comes off the books and Bryce Harper, Manny Machado and Josh Donaldson are slated to be available via free agency.


While the fit is logical on paper, it's also entirely contingent on Stanton's wishes. He can reject any trade and is believed to prefer West Coast destinations, according to MLB Network Insider Jon Heyman. Left unknown is whether Stanton would remain with the rebuilding Marlins for another season or accept a trade to St. Louis, if those are the only options presented to him.


Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak and general manager Mike Girsch likely will use the next several days to determine the viability of their chances to acquire Stanton. If the negotiations stall, the Cardinals could move on to potential offensive upgrades on the free-agent market, including J.D. Martinez and Eric Hosmer.


http://m.mlb.com/news/article/262184...carlo-stanton/

“We got beat by another 11th hour offer!”

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I'd be okay with 3 years of Stanton for those players. Assuming we are still going to be on the hook for $100 million at least, if he gets old and slow within those 3 years still seems like a high price. The Cardinals do have the money to have dead money on the books. They HAVE to do something to make the team better and loosen the log jam of prospects.

Of course we would. That's a shit package.