Moving Nationally or Internationally

[BIG_DADDY]

If you were going to move would you consider an international move ever? If you were going to pick another spot in the good old USA where would you like to be? For me I could see Austin in my not too distant future. If our country goes hard left I would have to look at the options at that time but I am going to start the process next year. I would love to look at Panama. I have seen several clients and friends move over the years. The most popular places have been Costa Rica, Philippines, Equador and Brazil but I know a lot of Brazilians. i can't forget Monaco for those with a lot of cash.

[PunkinDrublic]

Interesting

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Okay, I'll start posting the ranking of my 86 cites that are potential retirement destinations. As background, I looked at housing costs, cost of living, taxes, various climate issues, political leanings, population size, and my subjective scoring of the quality of housing choices available in the $400,000 to $500,000 price range.

Scoring is based on my family's preferences, which are:

1. Having to work fewer years before retirement is a plus.
2. We want lower humidity, but it doesn't help if it's lower than Denver's. It just hurts if it's higher.
3. We want an average amount of rain, not too much and not too little.
4. We want as little snow as possible (my wife's preference in particular)
5. We'd rather live in a place that is in the middle politically, but leaning left is better than leaning right. (Put on your dang masks if you want me to move there.)
6. We're looking at single-story homes whenever possible, since we'll plan to age in the home.
7. We want a place that has January lows of around 45 and July highs of 75. The further from that, the more points are deducted.
8. Housing quality scores are based on the size of home we can afford (up to an ideal size but not necessarily bigger), as well as my subjective view of how attractive the housing stock is.
9. I'd rather live in a larger city, primarily because we'll need more health care as we age, and we also like having more choice among restaurants, culture, parks, etc. However, anything about 200,000 is generally the same, so no bonus for being bigger beyond that.
10. The 86 cities are mostly places that I think would be interesting, but I also generally tried to get a city in most western states. I added a few cities in other regions that look interesting, or where I've heard the tax situation is friendly to retired people.

Interested to see how this turns out.

[jdubya]

Born and initially raised in Santa Barbara California and it was phenomenal. (1964-75). Moved to the SF Bay Area in mid 70`s and it was fantastic. Today at 56 years old....with family up in north Idaho, I am out of California as soon as my elderly parents in a nearby town no longer need my care. It could be this year or 10 years from today but I`ll not leave them while they are alive. I will will end up in the panhandle....it is home for me. Maybe winters are tough but it is possible I may buy something small in the Texas gulf area for winters....I like liberty

[DaneMcCloud]

I've never really considered moving outside of the US but a few years back, a lawyer friend told me that he was able to get dual citizenship with Italy because his family never "renounced" their Italian citizenship.

After doing some checking, my family is also eligible to have dual citizenship with Italy, which also comes with some serious perks such as the ability to purchase land anywhere in the EU. I'll probably spring for it someday, as it only cost my friend $3k in legal fees for his family of four. I don't know if I'll ever use it but maybe someday my kids will find a use for it.

That said, there could be worse things in life than spending my final years living in Tuscany.

[Rain Man]

Here are my #76 through 80 rankings. (See picture below.)

Rank Score City Sample House

76 59.74 Key West, FL
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-02207?view=qv
77 59.25 Vancouver, BC Canada
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5...80763261_zpid/
78 57.34 Juneau AK
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-90114?view=qv
79 56.58 Deadwood SD
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-48844?view=qv
80 54.81 Sitka AK
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-23661?view=qv

Summary:

Sitka’s an odd place. Less snow than Denver, but lots of rain and there’s not really a summer even though it’s pretty far south. Not a lot of sunshine, though that's not a big deal for me. It’s affordable and interesting, but the climate and housing market don’t match our vision. It’s high humidity as well, though that’s probably an unfair penalty in that climate. I think humidity is tougher when it's hot.

Deadwood – I thought this place would rank much higher. It’s very affordable and would cut two years from my work career to live there. However, it gets a lot of snow and there’s not much in the way of single-story homes. There’s a nice summer climate, though. I’m surprised it doesn’t have a higher score, but it's just got enough negatives to get dragged down a lot.

Juneau – Basically the same as Sitka but with much more snow and less rain. The housing markets here are uninspiring, and Alaska continues to get pummeled by my wife's desire to not have snow.

Vancouver – This is really kind of a guess since I didn’t do any tax analysis. It’s got good housing options and a nice metro area for culture, but the summers are surprisingly cool and we still get snow. High humidity being on the coast, but that’s not unexpected.

Key West – It’s surprisingly cost-competitive given the very high-demand market, in part because of Florida’s tax structure. My savings will go just as far there as it will staying in Denver, which is intriguing. It’s kind of tropical and is going to be warm and humid in the summer. The big problem here is that you can’t buy much for under $500,000. You can get a 1,400 square foot condo at best. It’s also a small and isolated community so I penalize it for that, but that’s probably unfair in some respects. As a tourist destination it’s going to have a lot of stuff to do.

[Rain Man]

Here are my #71 to 75 rankings. I actually screwed up on Jackson, WY, so it's ranked too high. It should be #81. (In my housing grades I accidentally graded Jackson, CA.) But whatever, it's here now. If you're scoring at home, move it down six spots.

Redding (CA)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-71296?view=qv

Warsaw (MO)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-35676?view=qv

Durango (CO)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-43601?view=qv

Hilo (HI)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-37532?view=qv

Jackson (WY)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-24493?view=qv

Summary:

Redding – North central California so I thought it might have a nice climate. However, a warmer winter is the only advantage. Higher taxes mean I’d have to work a little longer to retire there, and the summers are pretty hot. It’s a bit more humid than Denver. It's okay on the housing selection, though.

Warsaw – It’s on one of the big Corps of Engineer lakes so I thought it might be nice. We drove through it once and thought it was kind of charming. Pretty much the same story as Redding, but it’s more affordable and would cut a year off my retirement timeline. The downsides compared to Redding are that it’s more humid and is a pretty small town relative to health care, restaurants, etc.

Durango – It’s a wash with staying in Denver. The climate is nearly identical and the affordability is the same. But we’d likely have a slightly smaller house if we moved. This is really pretty neutral so it’s more whether you’d want to live in Denver or Durango, each of which has their advantages.

Hilo – Very nice climate in Hilo, other than humidity. Pleasant winters and 8 degrees cooler than Denver in summer. You get a whole lot of rain, but big deal. The only problem is that the houses have that “beat up by the tropics” feel. You can’t get a non-fixer-upper in my price range, which would then add a lot of cost. It's interesting that my retirement savings would last longer there than in Denver, though. If the housing stock was more appealing, this could be a contender.

Jackson (WY) – Housing affordability is ridiculous, so it's a no-go from the start You'd also have notably colder winters than Denver with a lot more snow, which is not what we’re targeting. It's a very cool town, though. There's a reason why it's expensive.

[Rain Man]

Here are my #66 to 70 rankings.

House samples:

Lawrence, KS
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-08939?view=qv

Galveston, TX
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-36075?view=qv

Eureka, CA
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-11594?view=qv

Manhattan, KS
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-46969?view=qv

Fort Morgan, Co
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-12980?view=qv

Starting from the bottom….

Fort Morgan is a bit more cost-effective than Denver, turning a couple of full-time work years into half time. It’s about the same climate in the summer, but gets half the snow of Denver (altitude, presumably, as it’s 1,000 feet lower). It’s hit or miss on home quality, but there’s potential. The sample house is kind of typical – it has potential, but needs some work on the landscaping in particular. It’s a small town, though reasonably accessible to Denver and the airport, but daily life would be in a small and pretty conservative town.

Manhattan KS is the home of Kansas State University, so it’s a major college town, which is always good. The sample home is nicer than it looks, because it backs up to a country club and is close to campus. It’s slightly more cost-effective than Denver, but not much, just moving my retirement up six months. They get little snow, but the summers are a little hotter and a little more humid so the climate is a minor win at best.

Eureka CA is very intriguing. I like the climate a lot, with very mild winters, even though the summers aren’t really summer. It apparently seldom reaches 70 degrees, being coastal and notably north of San Francisco. I wouldn’t mind that at all, though. It’s got some interesting houses (see sample), but it’s not as cost-effective as staying in Denver. I’d have to work a little longer and move into a notably smaller home. It may not be worth the tradeoff, but I remain intrigued.

Galveston – I really thought this would rank higher. In part, the problem is that I priced it on a nice oceanview condo that has very high monthly fees. The challenge in that particular housing market is that there are a lot of interesting houses but they’re mostly on stilts for hurricane protection, so they violate my single-story rule. They have very mild winters, but the summers are slightly hotter and a lot more humid. Oh, and hurricanes.

Lawrence, KS, is the home of the University of Kansas, and I like the college-town vibe. However, Kansas isn’t overly friendly on taxation, so it’s not very cost-effective. Similar to Galveston, I picked a condo that’s got a high monthly fee. But it’s a very nice and very large condo with lots of community amenities, so it would be a nice retirement home post-covid. Not sure it’s worth the trouble of moving, though. Slightly better climate than Manhattan KS above, and generally seems to have a good inventory of home choices.

Most of these seem to be kind of a wash at best compared to staying in Denver, in my opinion. I think they all have too much of a tradeoff in some way, and not enough offsetting advantages, to rise to a high level of contention.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Jackson (WY)
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-24493?view=qv

Jackson (WY) – Housing affordability is ridiculous, so it's a no-go from the start You'd also have notably colder winters than Denver with a lot more snow, which is not what we’re targeting. It's a very cool town, though. There's a reason why it's expensive.

So, there have been some mild surprises so far (thanks for continuing to share)....like Vancouver, yet understandable with the mild summers. Laguna Beach being so low, and Durango (I've just heard good things).

But.... WTH?! Never knew this place existed, much less having to spend half a million on a home. Yeah, its backyard is Yellowstone, but you could buy the same house in Hawaii or several other places for the nature for that price or lower.

Hell, Laguna Beach sounds infinitely nicer, even though I'm sure taxes far exceed Wyoming.

[Bearcat]

Hmmm..... https://www.outsideonline.com/215751...ferent-incomes

via Gfycat

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

So, there have been some mild surprises so far (thanks for continuing to share)....like Vancouver, yet understandable with the mild summers. Laguna Beach being so low, and Durango (I've just heard good things).

But.... WTH?! Never knew this place existed, much less having to spend half a million on a home. Yeah, its backyard is Yellowstone, but you could buy the same house in Hawaii or several other places for the nature for that price or lower.

Hell, Laguna Beach sounds infinitely nicer, even though I'm sure taxes far exceed Wyoming.

Yeah, Jackson is an odd place. I did a study in Wyoming about housing once, and something like 20 of the 23 counties had below-average costs for the state. I figured I'd screwed up a number somewhere, but I hadn't. Jackson is so expensive that it drives the statewide average cost up to the point where nearly everywhere else in the state is below average. And it's not like Jackson is a big town, either. It's just ludicrously expensive.

I finally visited it last year, and it's a really charming town. It's near the Jackson Hole ski resort, Yellowstone, and Teton National Park. And the tax structure in Wyoming is really, really friendly for retirement. But I'd much rather live in Laguna Beach given the weather and the access to stuff. And I'm usually a guy who like the mountains more than the ocean.

Laguna Beach is a pretty awesome place, but there's just no way to retire there on a reasonable income. You combine the cost with California's tax structure, and it's so infeasible that it has to be at the bottom of the list.

[KS Smitty]

Manhattan KS gets listed on a few "places to retire" sites. Summer sucks, today it was 90 degrees with a NE wind and the heat index was 105 and it's only beginning we have another 6 weeks of this. UGH. Due to the close proximity of Fort Riley and KSU being in town housing is higher than smaller surrounding communities. All 4 seasons are represented, usually in the same day or week and iirc we get usually 6 days of perfect weather in a calendar year. AHHH Kansas.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by KS Smitty

Manhattan KS gets listed on a few "places to retire" sites. Summer sucks, today it was 90 degrees with a NE wind and the heat index was 105 and it's only beginning we have another 6 weeks of this. UGH. Due to the close proximity of Fort Riley and KSU being in town housing is higher than smaller surrounding communities. All 4 seasons are represented, usually in the same day or week and iirc we get usually 6 days of perfect weather in a calendar year. AHHH Kansas.

Yeah, I like college towns. I should build in a scoring bonus for that. I put it in my model because I'd seen it on a few "good places to live" lists, but Kansas doesn't seem very tax-friendly, which offsets the more affordable housing compared to Denver. And the weather's not necessarily better than Denver's, depending on one's tastes. So it's not at the bottom of the list, but I can't score it in the top half.

[flinchfree]

Australia is noice. Byron Bay may be the most beautiful place on Earth.


Of course, it's a center left country so if you're trying to escape American Liberalism you'd be endlessly unhappy.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by flinchfree

Australia is noice. Byron Bay may be the most beautiful place on Earth.


Of course, it's a center left country so if you're trying to escape American Liberalism you'd be endlessly unhappy.

I don't have Australia on the list because the continent is deadly, but I'd consider it. I've only been there once, but I really enjoyed Sydney and Hobart as a tourist.

I wonder if it's easy to retire there. I've heard that it's tough to get a work visa there as an American.

[flinchfree]

Spot on re restrictions on permanent move there.
You've gotta have money behind you, a quality career in an area that might have needs, as well as support within the country who will 'vouch' that they will assist where need....

Australia worked out long ago it could be a picky and choosy immigration nation, embrace multiculturism while being selective on the number and type brought in.

It's a lucky country based on natural riches, and wants you to not make things harder than the beach and bbq should be.

I'll be back there in a couple years after over 20 in the USA.
Still be able to watch my Chiefs on the internet but do so in a country that on the whole gets along with eachother.
It'll be a nice change.